Unarmed strike alignment?


Rules Questions

Sczarni

OK. Now I know the common answer is probably "if it doesn't say, then it isn't so."

But here is my question: are unarmed strikes aligned?

I know a sword, beat metal/rock/wood, doesn't have an inherent alignment, and must be enchanted with one via magical forging. This is easily understandable. And it has a cost. And to do this, you also have to have the item be magic to begin with (+1 or better, then add holy or whatever).

My question is whether there is an "unmagic" aligned quality to people with an alignment? I mean, in theory, they "detect" as their alignment, thus they are aligned. So are their bodies aligned? And as such, can they bypass DR/alignment something has?

Are alignments magical enhancements only? Or are they inherent properties of aligned persons/entities? Does the DR/alignment only apply versus weapons, or against said alignment generally?

Scratching my head a little, because I don't see how a LG Paladin can hit with a neutral (non aligned, actually) fist, if otherwise his fist, alone, sticking through a door, would detect as LG.

If there is any actual FAQ on this, or some semblance of a reasonable explanation (like "weapons have to be magically enchanted to have alignments... even if those weapons are people who are aligned, but that alignment means nothing and doesn't count" isn't that reasonable, so please do explain)? (and do try to avoid the "no, simply no." argument as well)

"All creatures have an alignment and alignment determines the effectiveness of some spells and magic items."

"A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that matched the subtype(s) of the creature."

----this last quote (from UMR) indicates that characters, which have an alignment (subtype?), can use that alignment against DR/alignment with both natural and wielded weapons WITHOUT any enchantment. ------

Liberty's Edge

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You attack are aligned if you have a alignment subtype.
I.e. an Angel has the subtype "good" and his attacks are good aligned.

PRD wrote:
Good Subtype: This subtype is usually applied to outsiders native to the good-aligned outer planes. Most creatures that have this subtype also have good alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has a good alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the good subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields are good-aligned (see Damage Reduction).

Same thing for the other alignments.

A few classes get the ability to apply an alignment to their weapons unarmed strikes included) but generally that last for a short span of time.

If you are large you can't pick up a small paladin and use him as a improvised good weapon ;-)

The level of "alignment" of a typical player character is too small, even when it is a paladin, to say that his body is made of "aligned" material.
Outsiders instead are made of their plane basic material, so they are made of aligned material.

Adding some template can infuse a PC or NPC with aligned materials, so that he will count as made by that material.

Sczarni

Diego Rossi wrote:

Adding some template can infuse a PC or NPC with aligned materials, so that he will count as made by that material.

Yeh, I am getting to the whole "alignments" are not the same as "aligned subtypes"...

double checking other character's eidelon... noting the "as if they had the subtype" which indicates they don't actually have it.

And after reading more of the subtypes can say yes: most humans are made out of human (subtype) not good (or evil or whatever). Thanks for the clarification between alignment and subtype (which grant the abilities I was questioning).


People do not detect as their alignment unless they're level 5 or higher. Mortal alignment just ain't that strong. Natural weapons and unarmed strikes aren't any different from manufactured weapons. Unless it says otherwise, it doesn't bypass anything. There are several feats and class features that change this.

Easiest way to see this is monk, who has this:

Ki Pool wrote:
At 10th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Monks must be lawful. If their strikes already counted as lawful, why would they give this to them?

The line about alignment subtypes is about creatures made of <alignment> like devils and angels. Basically just outsiders, honestly. They bypass their alignment subtypes with both their natural weapons and any weapon they're holding.

Sczarni

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

People do not detect as their alignment unless they're level 5 or higher. Mortal alignment just ain't that strong. Natural weapons and unarmed strikes aren't any different from manufactured weapons. Unless it says otherwise, it doesn't bypass anything. There are several feats and class features that change this.

Easiest way to see this is monk, who has this:

Ki Pool wrote:
At 10th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Monks must be lawful. If their strikes already counted as lawful, why would they give this to them?

The line about alignment subtypes is about creatures made of <alignment> like devils and angels. Basically just outsiders, honestly. They bypass their alignment subtypes with both their natural weapons and any weapon they're holding.

Yeh, I get that alignment and subtype are not the same. And alignment subtypes are what grants the ability to bypass DR/alignment. And most humans are made of human, and most elves are made of elf, etc... humans are not made of "good stuff from beyond". Got it. Thanks.


Easiest way I can think to explain it is to think of Ki, or Chi or something.
There is a huge difference between a normal human who has a little bit of Ki, and a practiced user who has enough surrounding him that you can "sense" the Ki around him, and someone who can wrap that Ki around his hand and stab you with it.

Most people have an alignment. Some people (like 5th lvl clerics) have such a strong alignment that you can sense it (but it still doesnt DO anything, you can mostly just see it), and there are a few (such as 10th lvl monks) who can take that aura and condense/focus it or whatever, and then stab you with it.

A water elemental isnt coated in water, nor does it have a watery insides. It IS water.
In the same way an evil outsider isnt just a creature with extremely evil thoughts. It is literally made up of evil "stuff."
We are creatures made of matter, they are creatures made of evil (as in, evil being a physical property).

Edit: If you want your unarmed strikes to be aligned, one example is that you could be a 10th lvl barbarian with the Chaos Totem to get chaotic attacks. Basically you are so infused with chaos that your very essence takes on that property, and the other abilities it gives you really cement that.

Or be a World Serpent. I never really figured out that totem :P


Generally most mortal PC races by themselves lack alignment types for purposes of damage resistance. They gain them usually via classes, Monk for example, or Paladin "aura means all my attacks are Good aligned" etc.

As noted, while races have alignments, most don't have it to the overwhelming power enough that it becomes its own 'factor'.


For player characters? No, their unarmed strikes, and attacks in general, are usually not aligned.

Monks have ki, and their unarmed strikes eventually count as various special materials and lawful alignment for getting past DR.

And actually, there is an item that can turn that lawful unarmed strike into a good or evil unarmed strike (it is like a prayer tool, adn the description basically has two different items that use the same mechanic and price- one version of the item is covered in good prayers and makes you count as good, while the other is covered in...I dunno, heavy metal lyrics, and makes you count as evil). It is called the 'prayer wheel of ethical strength', which you use when you rest to regain ki, and lasts until the next time you rest.

Brawlers also have an alginment thing, and it works off of their personal alignment. General result of an attempt to make a 'not monk unarmed character, which is more flexible than monk'.

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