Scroll reading with Darkvision

[Jokem]

I have a Judge who said to come here to find out if scrolls can be read with Darkvision. As far as I can tell, Darkvision is like regular vision except reduced to black and white. Scrolls are not in color are they? If not then Why can they not be read that way? Is there a clarification somewhere?

[Jasque]

You can read scrolls with darvision. If the judge doesn't believe you, take a black and white photograph of a newspaper or a page from a book. It's easy to read in black and white.

[Jokem]

Jasque wrote:

You can read scrolls with darvision. If the judge doesn't believe you, take a black and white photograph of a newspaper or a page from a book. It's easy to read in black and white.

OK, I agree. Like most of these issues, the best resolution is when someone 'official' checks in on it. I have not had much luck getting Paizo officials to address these problems.

[Majuba]

I'm of the general opinion that you can't read a scroll with darkvision. However, here's what I found as far as rules (which are all very brief).

PRD-CoreRulebook-Glossary wrote:

Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all, out to a range specified for the creature. Darkvision is black-and-white only (colors cannot be discerned). It does not allow characters to see anything that they could not see otherwise—invisible objects are still invisible, and illusions are still visible as what they seem to be. Likewise, darkvision subjects a creature to gaze attacks normally. The presence of light does not spoil darkvision.

This is unchanged from the 3.5 SRD text.

PRD-Bestiary-UniversalMonsterrules wrote:

Darkvision (Ex or Su) A creature with darkvision can see in total darkness, usually to a range of 60 feet. Within this range the creature can see as clearly as a sighted creature could see in an area of bright light. Darkvision is black and white only but otherwise like normal sight.

The last sentence would seem to support scroll reading.

[Jasque]

Out of curiosity, what is the argument against reading scrolls with darkvision?

[AlaskaRPGer]

Jasque wrote:

Out of curiosity, what is the argument against reading scrolls with darkvision?

Not rules-wise, but old-school-wise, there's an arguement that since darkvision is the replacement for infravision from earlier editions that an only see heat signatures, it should't work.

But this is darkvision, not infravision, so it does work.

[Murdock Mudeater]

AlaskaRPGer wrote:

Jasque wrote:

Out of curiosity, what is the argument against reading scrolls with darkvision?

Not rules-wise, but old-school-wise, there's an arguement that since darkvision is the replacement for infravision from earlier editions that an only see heat signatures, it should't work.

But this is darkvision, not infravision, so it does work.

Yeah, that's the main issue I see: What does dark vision represent in your setting?

[Jokem]

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

AlaskaRPGer wrote:

Jasque wrote:

Out of curiosity, what is the argument against reading scrolls with darkvision?

Not rules-wise, but old-school-wise, there's an arguement that since darkvision is the replacement for infravision from earlier editions that an only see heat signatures, it should't work.

But this is darkvision, not infravision, so it does work.

Yeah, that's the main issue I see: What does dark vision represent in your setting?

This is PFS, so that is the setting.

[dragonhunterq]

Darkvision represents being able to see in the dark exactly the same as in normal light except it's black and white...

Unless your scrolls use coloured paper the exact same tone (intensity?) as your differently coloured ink you should be fine.

[Pizza Lord]

Old school, when it was infravision, it made sense that scrolls couldn't be read since infravision worked by picking up heat. Since the writing on a scroll didn't differentiate in a significant manner from the scroll itself, you couldn't pick out the writing. Demihumans (as they were called) did have special thermal inks and paints they could use which did show up to their vision, they also had some that weren't even visible to normal vision in the light, but which showed up just fine to them in the dark.

Darkvision does not have it's 'mechanics' spelled out (for good reason), this keeps them from having to deal with how it works and now it just works, because it does. Darkvision just says you see in black and white and can't pick out colors. Since writing typically is in black and white, or at least a contrast ratio that stands out, you can read with darkvision. Even if the page was blue and the writing was silver, they would see a dark paper with light writing (which they could read), but not be able to tell it was blue or silver.