I don't miss the midwest. 15 windchill sucks, and when it's 5 below on the temp to begin with then you're in for real fun. You put on 437 layers, step outside and raise a middle finger to the temperature that you've finally beaten...then the wind blows and somehow it finds every little crack in your clothing and you're almost instantaneously naked.
Interpretation: breaking up harm into smaller discrete parts
ERROR: does not fit context.
Most likely substitute for quantizing: quantifying. Certainty: low (20%)
Unable to parse. Contact local Cel network communication administrator for assistance.
I'm going to go with the most likely substitute? I'm pretty sure I mean quantifying, but I'm quickly losing my grasp on what vocab words to use in this discussion. Something along the line of the sumation of harm done of one compared the sumation of harm done by another.
My phone informed me it got down to 5F here with wind today. All the natives were naturally very amused I was freezing my ass off, because as you say they're used to windchills of -40F. Even so, I missed my fur hat and proper boots, which are back on the east coast.
I'm quickly losing my grasp on what vocab words to use in this discussion
Hm, this is the second time you've mentioned 'vocab words'. What do you mean by that?
In choosing a series of words to communicate something, what other criteria do you consider besides choosing the best possible words to most accurately convey your meaning?
By vocab, I'm just using a blanket term for anything that requires me to define something as opposed to using it in context. Although, I will admit, I've noticed over the last couple of days how many people around here use the word sarcasm when they probably mean exageration. Maybe it's a regional thing?
I also word vomit, so even when I innevitably say something incorrect or offensive what I'm ACTUALLY trying to say comes across eventually.
Interesting... is this after you take a minute to collect your thoughts (which seems like the more efficient approach in time/energy), or is it because your mouth is in a way going faster than your brain? And if so, what drives that? Do you feel any compulsion to fill silences (i.e. perhaps you find silences awkward)?
Although, I will admit, I've noticed over the last couple of days how many people around here use the word sarcasm when they probably mean exageration. Maybe it's a regional thing?
That could very well be the case. (I'll try to keep an eye out for it too, but even though I've lived in L.A. since March I think Alaina is still the only person I know who is originally from California.)
You're welcome to try, but it is impossible to offend me
So, this shit doesn't offend you? And neither does this f#~+ery? Not one of these 701 things offends you?
If you are utterly unmoved (which I doubt), that's problematic.
my brain tends to run on higher speed than my mouth
In terms of communicating I usually think of my brain as a series of coupled algorithms that select the most appropriate combination of words to clearly convey my meaning considering succinctness, intended tone, the listener's background, and context. My voice (or typing, I guess) would be the server that formulates these instructions and relays them to the listener.
If we treat your communication computation the same way, but you do not have an algorithm checking if your words fit your meaning or the impact they'll have on your audience, what are your brain cycles being spent on in choosing words? Is it that you have a very different algorithm, or is it more that you don't know what your full meaning is before you start speaking, or maybe something else?
You guys you guys, everyone should check out this super excellent series that Alaina pointed me to. (I didn't realize I needed a concept of 'brutal cheerfulness' until I saw this, but Glorian is perhaps one of my all-time favorites.)
It's awesome. Watch it. (Do it.)
So, this s~&% doesn't offend you? And neither does this f*#*ery? Not one of these 701 things offends you?
If you are utterly unmoved (which I doubt), that's problematic.
Sure, those things are offensive. My ability to be moved or not doesn't enter into it. You (the person) cannot offend me (the person). What terrible things you link about what others do to each other has nothing to do with my statement.
In terms of communicating I usually think of my brain as a series of coupled algorithms that select the most appropriate combination of words to clearly convey my meaning considering succinctness, intended tone, the listener's background, and context. My voice (or typing, I guess) would be the server that formulates these instructions and relays them to the listener.
If we treat your communication computation the same way, but you do not have an algorithm checking if your words fit your meaning or the impact they'll have on your audience, what are your brain cycles being spent on in choosing words? Is it that you have a very different algorithm, or is it more that you don't know what your full meaning is before you start speaking, or maybe something else?
I don't have words to communicate what I'm thinking more often than not. Language falls short. I also don't understand people. I can intellectually process things they say to me, and I can try to respond to the best of my ability which has a great number of limitations. I understand that people can be offended by the things I say. I seldom understand why a statement of fact I may say would be upsetting, because it is factual. However, I know that people do take offense to things even if they are true. So, now I have a framework for lack of comprehension why people are offended by a truth and must convey a truth with some kind of language that may not be taken as an offense. One exmaple is that pain is in the brain to which is met with, "I'm not crazy, I have real pain!" I never said they were crazy, I never said it was fake. Isaid that pain is in the brain. And if someone is in chronic pain, globally, it's is highly likely that there is a strong focus on it for a long enough period of time for the neuroplastic prinicple of the brain that it has wired itself into MUCH better skill at pain. Now, I need to find words to convey the meaning that the pain is in the head, and "practicing pain" makes it much worse without offending by stating the fact that pain is in the brain. I don't understand people, therefore I frequently struggle with finding the right words that make sense coupled with that whole mental block thing on defining words.
Having watched the first season of JourneyQuest: I am amused. The wizard is very very much like Rincewind, but I don't mind that. The Elf is my kind of character.
Huh, yeah she is pretty similar to the blunt, withdrawn kinds of PCs you normally go for, though that wouldn't have occurred to me if you hadn't pointed it out.
Also, Dulae had the gall to inform me that there are outtakes at the end of every episode. I totally missed that. (I feel like I did when I first discovered xkcd had scrollover text; I am compelled to watch them again. Bastard.)
Sure, those things are offensive. My ability to be moved or not doesn't enter into it. You (the person) cannot offend me (the person). What terrible things you link about what others do to each other has nothing to do with my statement.
So, you find these things offensive, but you yourself are not offended, because, to loosely paraphrase your statement, what happens to other people does not affect whether you’re offended.
If we use MW’s definition of offensive, a logical extension of your statement would be that you do not have empathy for others. But instead of assuming this is true, I will ask: in what cases do you feel happiness, anger, or sadness when something happens to someone else in a way that doesn't directly affect you? Perhaps when it’s someone you know?
Or maybe you have an alternative definition of offense that requires some form of personal attack limited between two people or two groups?
I don't have words to communicate what I'm thinking more often than not. Language falls short.
Fortunately, you can always practice and improve (as you’re doing here).
I seldom understand why a statement of fact I may say would be upsetting, because it is factual.
As we discovered in our discussion about bias, context matters. The realities of our place in the world shape our experience of it, including factual statements. Quoting the US maternal mortality rate to a scared female rape victim who, potentially very soon in Ohio, is forced to carry a pregnancy would be fairly morally reprehensible, even though all that was stated was a fact.
Here’s an example we can practice with. Let’s take the statement ‘All lives matter’. I would argue this is a moral truth; all lives are important, and equally so. (Let's start with humans, but we could expand this if you like.)
Now let’s say I am a black person in the US and I exist with the reality that I’m more likely to be stopped by the police, arrested, and I'll likely face much harsher sentences. Some of my friends and acquaintances have suffered from a systemically biased justice system and a couple people I know of have been killed by police while unarmed. I worry my family members might not make it home from a routine traffic stop.
I want to raise awareness that this is happening, that black men are being summarily executed in the street (presumably as a consequence of being black, since white people do not tend to experience the same treatment). So I say to you, “Black lives matter.”
Can you see why responding with the moral truth that “All lives matter” in this context is actually a pretty sh!tty thing to say?
So, you find these things offensive, but you yourself are not offended, because, to loosely paraphrase your statement, what happens to other people does not affect whether you’re offended.
If we use MW’s definition of offensive, a logical extension of your statement would be that you do not have empathy for others. But instead of assuming this is true, I will ask: in what cases do you feel happiness, anger, or sadness when something happens to someone else in a way that doesn't directly affect you? Perhaps when it’s someone you know?
Or maybe you have an alternative definition of offense that requires some form of personal attack limited between two people or two groups?
This is the part where I am the insensitive jerk. No, empathy is not something I consider a strong suit of mine. I can be angry about something that happened to another, but I don't feel the offense. I can take a patient in pain and do everything I can to help remove the pain, which includes a lot of cheerleading on my part (NOT my normal behavior). I can love the one I'm with, but only provide an ear to listen to when she comes home after a rough day at work. She yells, I listen, she cries, and I hug her. I love her dearly, but I don't feel the same anger she does unless the same thing has occurred to me. It's not callousness, it's just not there.
Can you see why responding with the moral truth that “All lives matter” in this context is actually a pretty sh!tty thing to say?
I can recognize that it pisses people off, but I don't understand why. However, while I'm smart enough to not say all lives matter, if I were to say it the statement wouldn't be "ALL LIVES MATTER, A++++@~!" It would be, "All lives matter?" I comprehend that context is important to people, but I still can't understand why a fact about a thing has an emotion attached to it. That's on me, and I know it ruins people's days (more than enough time learning that the hard way since youth). So, I try to learn how to not ruin other's good time based on experiential evidence and try to follow that as best as possible.
I am still thinking over your description of your experience of empathy, and I appreciate you sharing it.
For the BLM part, I wasn't looking for a binary yes/no answer to 'can you see why'; I was hoping you might use the suggested practice example for practice. To try to understand. I'm hoping you give it a shot without being afraid to give offense, get it wrong, or ask questions. (If you're game, you might try breaking it up by thinking about what my message is when I say "black lives matter" and what the message is when the reply, in that context, is "all lives matter".)
My motivation in encouraging you to give it a try is that you seem to be constantly writing yourself off by saying you 'don't understand people', like it's a foregone conclusion. Do you agree that's true? (If you do agree, no need to explain why if that's a bit personal, but I'm not convinced you not understanding is an inevitable certainty.)
I have not, nor will I ever understand why people are treated different, but I know that they are. I can log away various reactions people have had to things I say and know, "Oh, that's bad, don't say that one again" in my personal life. It's very rare that I understand why someone is taking offense to a thing I say. I can also understand that when people say things perception does enter into it and it can be used for ammo for a cause or against a cause. I understand that word choice is important. I dont' understand why, but I know that it is. A movement entitled BLM is going to set off a lot more racists doing racists things under the "protection" of a perceived moral high ground that all lives matter. I also understand that my perception of, "You need to change your movement name" would also be taken as an offense were I to state it. It's not because I think BLM isn't an important movement, it's because word choice is adding fuel to a fire that won't get them any ground. The whole taking offense at word choice, to me, is completely uncomprehendable yet I know that it happens. So, we're back to I don't understand (or like) people. You might be able to summarize much of who I am to a degree with Kantian ethics. I don't entirely align with Kant on his ethical dilemma arguements, but it's probably close.
======== GM travel advisory =========
I'm headed to Boston tomorrow - I'll try to post before my flight (posting afterward is not likely). This weekend I'm visiting my sister in Brooklyn - I expect I should be able to post once a day in the evening Eastern time. Monday and Tuesday I'm headed into Trump territory in upstate NY to talk about cool physics research at a couple high schools, but should be able to post in the evenings.
After Tuesday I'll be back in Mass (see you soon Dulae) and free to post up until the holidays, and even then I should probably be able to post once a day. I head back to L.A. Jan 3rd.
tl;dr summary: GM on east coast time Dec 15-Jan 3, expect 1x/day posting through Tuesday and on holidays.
Safe travels and have fun spreading the good word!
Thanks! I'm going to science the sh!t out of this outreach.
(I'm hoping we can bridge from astrophysics to climate change to consuming media about scientific research in general, but I will take interest at any level.)
I've been thinking about this, and there are some distinctly different ways the conversation could go from here.
Let me ask you something. What do you hope to get out of this discussion?
I'm hearing a clear message that you don't like people, you don't understand people, you don't understand BLM, and you seem to be uninterested in changing that. So why are you engaging if not to learn and challenge your views? Is there something you're hoping that I'll take away from what you're saying? Or some other reason?
Sorry all, the wifi isn't working at LAX today. I'll try to post after I get there (probably 11-12 tonight Pacific).
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Terrific news everyone, I got that job my friend told me about!
Holy shit, that's f~$!ing awesome!! If I'm remembering right, I think that means much more reasonable hours for you. Remind me if you'll still be practicing wizardy?
Still IT Support yes, but much more reasonable hours.
Congratulations! That's got to be such a relief to have a schedule you like
Wonderful news! You doing anything to celebrate?
@Xizoh: Dulae was like that his first year in college. T-shirt in windchills well below freezing. (I meanwhile have lost whatever tolerance for cold I once had.)
Science outreach chronicles: Today we talked about climate change and how to think critically about facts/sources in articles posted on facebook and there was no bloodshed. (Or even shouting.) Also, I taught a dozen girls some coding basics and they are a bunch of future tech badasses. My faith in humanity is somewhat bolstered.
I note that you say you “enjoy” it and it’s your “brain exercise” the way you might speak of a sudoku puzzle; something you do for entertainment.
Here’s is a reminder of where I’m coming from. And that hasn’t changed. I still intend to voice my concerns, because they’re not going away. I am still worried for my friends, co-workers, and neighbors. We’re talking about real lives. (This is not the first time I’ve reminded you that there’s more on the line here for me than discussion.)
I can continue treating you as an intellectual peer, considering your ideas with the same weight that I would scholars who have been studying discrimination for decades and those who actually feel its effects. I’d also be willing to keep shouldering far more than my share of the work in this discussion by carefully choosing my own words and taking on the additional labor of deciphering yours.
But if that’s what you want, I’m going to need you do to better than minimal thought and an offhand comment when I ask you to try:
I can gather that in that context that saying all lives matter becomes a blow off, assault, unneeded correction, or something like that.
With 100% certainty, I think you can do better. I understand it may not come easily to you, but you don’t get better/stronger without putting work in.
What I see in Stuff 5 is pushback that advocates against the best interests of a marginalized group based on self-reinforced ignorance. I’ve learned what comes next after such criticism; you have several excuses absolving yourself of responsibility for what you say. You don’t like people, you don’t understand people, you can’t choose words well, etc. First, I hope everyone around you still holds you accountable for what you say (I certainly will), and second, I’m calling bullsh!t.
I notice you often seem to respond as soon as you read something instead of investing thought in your reply, and I infer you’d choose better words if you made that investment. And for all your claims that you don’t understand, you haven’t asked a single question of me in an attempt to better understand before you state your own views (which given that you know you don’t understand you must realize are based on assumptions that are likely flawed).
I might hope given your self-professed lack of understanding you might recognize the wisdom of active listening here.
Let me ask you something else. I observe that you are here; you’ve sought out interacting with people through a medium that’s largely based on empathy, communicating, and taking on a different perspective. From what you say, you otherwise tend to avoid all of these things. So what brings you here?
I don't know if that first paragraph and this next one are the same issue or separate thing. However, I feel like some of the basis for my faults with conversation/understanding/posting/etc. is something more rooted in my genetic make-up. In childhood, a psychologist I had for many years had to sit down with my parents and express concern that I showed quite a few tendencies toward sociopathy. Whether or not my ability to convey what I mean in words is related to this or not I don't know. Regardless, there was a lot of work done between both of my parents to guide how those traits manifested. For example, I showed no remorse during a baseball game when I took out a catcher as I was running for home plate. He ended up very injured, but I was unmoved by his injury. So, I was guided toward a sport where a level of violence is acceptable (hockey), but also taught that committing penalties would not help the team win. The nature versus nurture element was that I had the disposition of unfeeling toward others that could result in violence, but the nurture guided that into a more appropriate use of these tendencies. I was an enforcer for our team, my job was to hit people. However, through my parents guidance I didn't commit many penalties. I certainly didn't take any joy from injuring others, but I also didn't care if I did. It was education that I can't help the team win the game if I am in the penalty box. They rationalized with me, so I wouldn't go into a hit with careless disregard for what happened to the other player. It was a conscious choice to hit legally to avoid the penalty box. If the unfeeling nature toward people wouldn't go away with love and care and teaching, then they decided that it was best to try and use those traits in ways that meant I could function in normal society.
I know that there is more at stake for you than a simple mental exercise discussion, and I'm sorry to say there isn't for me. I know that makes me awful, because I've been told that so many times in situations that are similar to this. I do feel emotions, I'm not devoid of them, but they are much more fleeting and less impactful than I've come to understand how others have them. Fortunately, the few friends and loved ones I have do understand me and that's why they are a part of my life. My fiance knows that when she asks if I will miss her when she travels, and I say that I will, that I really won't. She knows that I'm happy to spend time with her, but I will also be happy occupying myself when she's not there. She jokes with me about it, and calls me her robot. She also often translates things I say when we're talking to people, because she understands what I'm really trying to say.
My actions in the world are based on my parents teachings and guidance allowing me to try to do good things not because I particularly want to, but that it's my responsibility to try. My profession was chosen not because I desire to help people, it's because I'm good at it. Based on circumstances in the past I discovered that I'm far better at understanding how the body works than I am at my original intended career path of special forces in the military. I literally switched from going down a path that would lead to shooting people for a living to instead fixing them. Taking your point of not policing is something I can do to be more helpful as opposed to not. My interpretation of a more conscientious body of people being good for the whole seems to be flawed. I don't need to act on my thought of more efficiency among people is better for society, because it may not be better after all.
To your last question, I came here simply because I enjoy the game of Pathfinder and doing a PbP is more efficient than trying to seek out tables of people who's personalities I may find very grating or who may find me very grating. I'm willing to adapt how I play a character because I don't require a certain play style for joy, and I've been raised to make sure I'm not ruining other people's fun in the social contract of playing a group game. So, I try to adapt.
Coding is fun. I did a little bit of that a year or two ago, but my love for building is clockwork and woodwork. As for the Facebook articles I don't use social media. Ever. I find the very concept unnerving and a recipe for disaster.
Huh, good to see something besides me understands the value of coats :)
Yay, congrats Alaina! (I totally flaked out on reading the discussion...)
Stay strong not using social media, Xizoh! I enjoyed facebook back in 2006 when it was much less commercialized, but I quit just after apps came out on it (the notification blitzkrieg was unreal). I think I've logged onto my facebook once in the past 3 years, and I don't miss it at all; the sheer amount of crap being thrown at my account from all sides either trying to convince me of something I already agree with (yay algorithmic bubbles!) or selling me something is ridiculous.
[/rant]
:D
Lets see, news from me... I have a craving for lemonade right now.
@Xizoh - Go team sensible, er, team coat. (I've also been greatly enjoying my old furry bomber hat and giant warm boots that I've missed tromping around in the snow with.) Clockworking and woodworking are useful skills. Very cool. How'd you get into that?
I really appreciate you telling me this. I'm still taking some time to process is (as I'm wont to do), but I think it could be very useful in helping me learn to communicate with you better.
In the meantime, important: it's pretty clear to me that you are not awful.
Speaking of Clockwork.
I remember watching Dulae play Dishonored 2. Beautiful game. I do love a good steampunk setting. (Whalepunk, I guess?)
That was Dishonored 1! I don't have anything that will play 2 atm. The reviews say that they screwed up the graphics optimization for PC something fierce. Here's hoping for a patch!
Edit: So I misspelled it as 'Dishononered' and firefox wants to correct that into 'Nonhereditary'. Wut.
Eh, they're both ways I relax. Woodworking is really just hard work, and lets me have one class where my brain can go full auto pilot. Clockworks have always interested me, and then someone challenged me to make a clock. While I could care less about the challenge, it sounded fun so here I am staring at plans for a clock nearly entirely made of wood.
Dishonored is an awesome game, but I'm too poor to get Dishonored 2. ;_;
Happy belated winter solstice all. The days only get brighter from now until summer.
@Xizoh, when you say nearly entirely of wood, do you mean the gears too?
You’ve said a couple times you ‘make no sense’. I suspect you do make sense, although I haven’t found a model that fits all your actions and statements yet. (You say you have people in your life who know what you mean, which tells me it is possible, at least to some approximation.) You’ve had some very sharp insights, like your analysis of the three different interpretations of the study on college funding distribution I pointed to. And I assumed from statements like:
In an attempt to try to protect your health and well being
that empathy was there, but that wasn’t consistent with your statements that it doesn’t come easily to you. So given that your intelligence is clearly not a limiting factor, I did assume it was an excuse for not communicating well. You say that you’re genetically wired differently. I believe you and I appreciate all the work you’ve invested to interact as well as you do. My mistake.
(Side note: I can totally see now why you like playing caricatures and characters with very quirky personalities - it’s very formulaic and you could probably usually get away with only intaking information about the environment and ignoring the feelings of people around.)
Looking back, I was pretty slow to pick up on a lack of comprehension of emotions in and out of game. Your statements have been inconsistent, like you’ve sometimes been trying to predict what you think others expect to hear and other times not. I think I see a pattern: if I ask you a question, you tend to answer it honestly without much of a filter, but if you respond to a social cue you tend to say what you guess is expected. Would you agree with that?
If that’s true, can I propose we adopt some kind of Cel filter indicator, at least out of game? You’re welcome to keep practicing your social responses with your filter up if you want, but it would be very helpful to me in interpreting what you mean if I know it’s there and how it’s affecting what you’re saying.
Either way, I’ll keep working on my Cel interpreter algorithm. It might take awhile for it to be accurate, especially (as you’ve pointed out) over the medium of the interwebs, but that’s the goal.
I think you're doing well in game, but this turn in the discussion made me wonder if I could be doing more for you. Although I still have high expectations in terms of PC social awareness in the game, my highest priority is for the game to be accessible to you. What can I do to better help you succeed here? I’ve been assuming if I describe NPC reactions in context then players will be able to pick up on their underlying emotions or motivations. Would it be useful for me to state explicitly what those are?
---
I’m certainly not a psychologist, but your sports story isn’t that unusual, right? Aren’t most kids sociopaths? (It’s a funny thing to say, but seriously, I get the sense that kids can be totally without morals when they're young and grow out of it - we don’t finish developing cognitively until our mid-twenties.)
Although I consider myself an empathetic person now (by the MW definition anyway) I can remember not feeling remorse about injuries I inflicted until I was about 10 or so. And my empathy certainly wasn’t fully developed until after college, when I first started traveling a lot and meeting people from other countries and cultures.
And that’s pretty normal too, I think. We hear reports of war and conflicts across the world, but even older adults tend to treat people like statistics unless we have at least one face to think of. It’s why CNN gets more ratings from showing cat videos than covering global conflicts.
I have some experience with a few sociopaths (we tend to attract more than you’d expect in physics, for whatever reason), and I’m pretty sure they generally don’t have any trouble reading people, predicting people’s responses, or communicating. It’s what makes them such good manipulators.
Sociopaths also don’t generally prioritize other people’s time or experience unless there’s something in it for them, which doesn’t fit for you; you almost without fail post every day and have been making a huge effort to change your gameplay style for others’ benefit. The sporadic, unbridled enthusiasm for physics and silliness you’ve expressed without expectation for reciprocation or reward doesn’t really fit either. And I’m not sure I’ve ever met a sociopath who liked animals. (Granted, my sample size is pretty small.)
In any case, J.K. Rowling pretty much nailed it when she wrote that our choices matter far more than our abilities (or genetic make-up). I think recognizing you have a moral responsibility to do good in the world and doing your best to act on that even though it doesn’t necessarily feel good to you pretty much by definition makes you not ‘awful’. Honestly. (And I mean 'honestly' in both the face-value way and also the very British way toward whoever told you that.)
I came here simply because I enjoy the game of Pathfinder
I can tell you enjoy it, but why is that? Why not play a strategy game or a video game or do a sudoku puzzle or read a book? Why seek out human interaction?
----
In terms of social justice, I’ve been meaning to do something for Tuesdays again. Maybe weekly social justice pointers are a good fit. In the meantime, I posted one to read for this week below.
When everybody’s getting together, try and help your family and child-rearing friends understand that forcing young kids (especially girls) to hug or kiss relatives when they’re clearly not into it is not a great idea. It teaches them that physical affection is something that is owed, and that their own physical discomfort is less important than societal expectations. (This is essentially the same social force that pressures young women into physical contact with leering men. Young it is learned.)
If a youngster (or anyone ever, really) looks uncomfortable giving you a hug, you can emphasize that you respect that and offer an air five or a handshake.
that empathy was there, but that wasn’t consistent with your statements that it doesn’t come easily to you.
It's probably semantics, but usually statements I make like that don't come from a place of care (How rude!) but more of a feeling of responsibility to to encourage health and wellbeing so someone can live up to their maximum potential. The result is the same of expressing my want of health, but the intent behind it is more for wanting high functioning human beings than hoping they feel better.
if I ask you a question, you tend to answer it honestly without much of a filter, but if you respond to a social cue you tend to say what you guess is expected. Would you agree with that?
That is 100% correct. If I'm asked a question directly I tend to not lie. I can't keep track of every lie I've told or figure out who might remember what I've said to them in the past. Eventually, someone will catch that I've said something I didn't mean. However, if I'm not prompted to give a straight answer, then I can try to provide what people want to hear. This translates into most aspects of my life (i.e. this game) for no other reason than I haven't been able to find the level of filter to express what I think that doesn't often infuriate, offend, hurt, alienate or something else. Semi-side note, that lack of filter also works well in my close personal relationships because my fiance, for example, knows that it's true when I say I love her. Anyway, default mode is to provide what I have learned in life to be what people want to hear (which I recognize is so often going to be not an accurate assessment of what they want to hear).
If that’s true, can I propose we adopt some kind of Cel filter indicator, at least out of game? You’re welcome to keep practicing your social responses with your filter up if you want, but it would be very helpful to me in interpreting what you mean if I know it’s there and how it’s affecting what you’re saying.
I'm up for that proposition, and I don't know if it's safest for me to not use some kind of filter over the internet? If I state what I think all the time, then the things that people REALLY don't like to hear come out. If it helps, my thoughts and feelings are unfiltered but what I do and express to the world is usually though my usual filter. If you ask me a direct question there won't be a filter, because that's the part I haven't figured out how to do.
I think you're doing well in game, but this turn in the discussion made me wonder if I could be doing more for you. Although I still have high expectations in terms of PC social awareness in the game, my highest priority is for the game to be accessible to you. What can I do to better help you succeed here? I’ve been assuming if I describe NPC reactions in context then players will be able to pick up on their underlying emotions or motivations. Would it be useful for me to state explicitly what those are?
You are without a doubt one of the more empathetic people I've interacted with before! It's quite commendable. I do already feel like it's accessible to me, but it's more that everyone else has to put up with my misunderstandings and confusing statements. Throwing in a OOC "This person is expressing anger" or something like that would certainly get the information to me that I'm probably missing from time to time, but I'm not sure it would actually improve my ability to respond in the right manner. But, if it doesn't ruin the flow of the story, then I'm game!
I’m certainly not a psychologist, but your sports story isn’t that unusual, right? Aren’t most kids sociopaths? (It’s a funny thing to say, but seriously, I get the sense that kids can be totally without morals when they're young and grow out of it - we don’t finish developing cognitively until our mid-twenties.)
Yes, it's a large part of why I hate them. They are non-functional beings in society for way too long. It's normal childhood development to be shitty, but here we have my lack of filter: Even if it's not their fault, I hate them anyway. This wasn't just when I was little. When I played collegiate soccer and ended someone's season I still didn't care. By then, I wasn't specifically trying to injure (see below paragraphs), but I did say internally, "Awesome, he's done for the season, that will help us!" Also, random fact, current research is leaning toward early 20s for women and late 20s for men.
I have some experience with a few sociopaths (we tend to attract more than you’d expect in physics, for whatever reason), and I’m pretty sure they generally don’t have any trouble reading people, predicting people’s responses, or communicating. It’s what makes them such good manipulators.
Sociopaths also don’t generally prioritize other people’s time or experience unless there’s something in it for them, which doesn’t fit for you; you almost without fail post every day and have been making a huge effort to change your gameplay style for others’ benefit. The sporadic, unbridled enthusiasm for physics and silliness you’ve expressed without expectation for reciprocation or reward doesn’t really fit either. And I’m not sure I’ve ever met a sociopath who liked animals. (Granted, my sample size is pretty small.)
I'm a very good salesman, charming when I want to be, and very able to manipulate those around me to get what I want from them. I can pretend to be the person who genuinely demonstrates behavior of kindness and love for months, because it's builds trust and that's exploitable. Once someone trusts you, you can get away with a lot. I've done it before in youth and adolescence and the results were wonderful! I still do it now to people I legitimately can't stand, mostly because it's cathartic and I feel empowered enough to say they're a shit person who deserves it anyway. I recognize the statement is my judgment of them, and one person judging another is inherently flawed, but like I said I feel empowered to do it. Anyway, manipulating another is a form of cheating. It's not an even playing field.
This is the part where my parents stepped in. It depends on what psychologist you ask, but there's a growing sentiment in the field that behavior is 90% nature, 10% nurture. However, the 10% part is absolutely essential toward guiding how the nature manifests. My parents started very young working it in to me that my framework for existence is that 1) If you're going to do it, do it right, and 2) You can think whatever you want, but you must be rational about how you act in accordance with how society works in order to survive.
Those two philosophies help provide boundaries that allow me to navigate society in a more appropriate manner. If I am going to play a sport, don't cheat (you're doing it wrong). "If you're in the penalty box my team is down a man, so don't commit penalties." "But if I take out their man, he's out for the game, and I'm only out for 2 minutes!" "Alright, look at it this way. If you're on the ice more and not in the penalty box, then you can hit more of the members of their team and make them afraid of you. Then they can't play as strong when you're around." "Oooooh. Okay!" And thus I went forward avoiding illegal hits but working on the mechanics of hitting to become very good at it. "People don't like to hear that they are bad at their job and should be fired." "But they ARE bad at their job! And if they can't contribute, then they shouldn't be allowed to live. They're just a drain on everyone else around them!" "And if you tell everyone that, then no one will allow you to work with them and you'll become the drain. It is better to try to make sure your work overshadows theirs, and then maybe you can take their job because you could be better at it." "I would be the drain?! <processing the statement> I would be a drain, then I shouldn't be here. Okay, that makes sense."
These conversations were happening from my early teenage years to early 20s with some frequency. The nurture was able to set me up with rationality as the foundation, but they weaved in the element of doing things right. I don't change my gameplay for other's benefit. It's because playing a game comes with an agreed upon social contract that includes everyone's fun. If I ruin everyone else's fun, then I'm not doing it right. I said I would post every day with little exception, so I do. Word is bond, yo! It's again a semantics thing, because the end result is still the same of my changing gameplay for others. In this case, going behind the filter tells you why I'm changing. It's not because I care, it's because I would be doing it wrong if I didn't, and I was raised to believe that's not allowed. And the animal bit? That goes back to the last email. I certainly don't fit all the criteria of anything, but whatever I am is what I am!
Perhaps now it makes more sense why it infuriates me when people take up more than their allotted space? In my head I'm screaming, "YOU'RE F@@~ING DOING IT WRONG!!!! THIS IS INEFFICIENT!!!" If I were to act on it I'd wind up in jail. Seriously, I had to sell my car a couple years ago because I hit a breaking point when trying to drive through my parking garage and a group of people were casually strolling, 7 in a row, at a half mile an hour. They turned to see I was in my car behind them clearly wanting to get through, but continued to stroll along at a half mile an hour taking up so much space I couldn't drive around them. I nearly ran them over, and I know for sure I would have back up over them again to make sure the job was done. You would meet me on the news as one of those crazy people saying, "Yeah, I did it! And I'd do it again!" Shit like that happens too often in this city, so I had to sell my car so I wouldn't act on it. My framework is that doing things correctly includes not f*!$ing up traffic. The part of me that is some kind of abnormal (sociopathic or specturm or whatever) freaks out when people don't do it right, but the other lesson of "in order to survive you must..." keeps me from acting on my what I feel and believe.
I can tell you enjoy it, but why is that? Why not play a strategy game or a video game or do a sudoku puzzle or read a book? Why seek out human interaction?
Because these kinds of games are video games that are choose your own adventure. The sneaky rogue in a video game can stab their target or sneak around. In this game I can decide to throw a vial of oil at him, leap on his back, and ride him down the hallway if I wanted. There are very few things you can't roll for whereas a video game you're limited to what the developers decided you could do.
Dulae's combat music made me think of this for some reason.
Anyone seen Rouge(kidding) Rogue One yet?
Probably goes without saying, but I'm thinking on this.
In the meantime, it's worth emphasizing that whatever labels you do or don't identify with, you are welcome here.
Saw it yesterday. A lot of surprises I didn't see coming.
In a good way?
Yep, seeing Peter Cushing walking around, as well as Red and Gold Leaders from Episode IV. That face replacing technology from Tron Legacy and Benjamin Button does wonders.
Cooool. I've been hearing good things otherwise too. I'm going to try to get Dulae to go with me sometime next week.
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Happy Holidays from the east coast.
Happy Everything Everyone!
May all your organs be smooth!
Happy Holidays from the wintery west!
Hope everyone had a good holiday weekend!
Sorry for the delay, still on the way from NY to Massachusetts. I'll move things along after I arrive tonight.
Hypothesis: if you preview with accidental text in the dice field (between 'dice=' and '/dice') it limits the corrected roll to a d6.
Control (no text previewed, just '1d20')
Text previewed: the text in the roll description was originally previewed in the dice field, then the dice field was changed to 1d20
Sorry friend, I think you're just unlucky. Is the myth busted to your satisfaction?
Welp, I think you have shown that my hypothesis is trash. And that your dice luck is significantly better than mine. Mercy please!
Also, if you insinuate I like Vim again I will find you and pour spiders on you.
<3
Hmm, my disproportionate response meter informs me that I've struck a nerve. The natural course of action would be to insist that you use Vim above all things, including Emacs and IDEs. But, it's the holidays, so here's the latest QC Bembo as a peace offering: 1, 2, 3. Happy Hanukkah.
(Also, it will not be hard to find me - I'm currently on your couch. And if you want spiders on your couch, hey, it's your couch.)
(EDIT: but you are correct that if there are spiders on your couch I will *not* be on your couch.)
Oh hey, it was Xizoh's birthday earlier this week.
Happy Birthday Xizoh! How does it feel to be an adult?