| Dwarftr |
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I am looking to make a backup char for my current game. We are currently lvl 5 closing fast on lvl 6. I am looking for kinda a mystical swordsman theme.
I am looking at Kensai Magus as the majority of the class with a 2 lvl dip into monk Master of many styles. The monk dip is for the fact that kensai doesnt get any armor, and i can get Dex/Int/Wis to AC and evasion.
My main weapon plan is Katana, but also maybe Bastard Sword.... for flavor.
Race will most def be human.... unless someone makes a good argument for another.
I also want to plan on crafting magic items.... I talked to my DM and he is willing to let me research this. To any stormhawk fans, i am looking to create weapon crystals.... Basically throw away consumables that mimic weapon enchantments ( like flaming, smiting, silver, etc) that can be created for cheaper...... so either 1 time uses, or x/day type o thing.
Ideas, comments, suggestions?
And.... GO
| Kazaan |
You're going to be a bit MAD so, since you're going Human, I strongly recommend the alternate racial for an extra +2 ability score.
20 pt buy
Str 14+2[16] (5)
Dex 14 (5)
Con 13 (3)
Int 14+2[16] (5)
Wis 13 (3)
Cha 9 (-1)
Put your lvl 4 +1 into Con, and your lvl 8 into Wis to round out the modifiers. Toughness would probably also be a good idea if you're going to be more front-line (as opposed to a support combatant). Also, what does the rest of your team look like. It helps to know what the rest of the party is doing so you can synergize.
| RainyDayNinja RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 |
Flurry is a non-issue. It won't help because it doesn't mesh with Spell Combat since it uses your off-hand attack economy to cast a spell. So it's best to use an archetype that ditches flurry. Sensei might be a good alternative, as you'll get Wis to attack rolls, but you lose Evasion.
Keep in mind that as a Kensai (who lose spells/day, and lose Spell Recall) with a 2-level dip, you won't have a lot of spells to spam. Being able to rely on flurries for full-attacks will let you save spells for more crucial moments. Not to mention, compared to using Arcane Mark, you'll have a higher attack bonus and won't need to make a concentration check.
I second the Unchained Monk. Better BAB, more hp, and your good Wisdom and magus levels mean your will save will still be pretty good.
Charon's Little Helper
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While you won't use flurry in rounds when you use Spell Combat, you won't be using spells every round. The flurry would also work rather well with Frostbite or similar multi-touch spells.
Sensei is a great archetype, but it's a pretty bad dip.
For UMonk, a single level would be enough and you would only be 1 level behind in spell-casting.
claudekennilol
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I would not recommend a monk dip at all. Your biggest weakness (not wearing armor) is negated by Canny Defense. By focusing on also having wisdom, you're losing out on your stats that actually matter. You're also committing the biggest magus sin and losing out on your spell progression.
Here's what I'd suggest.
For your race I'd either pick a tiefling (just the default heritage (+2 dex/+2 int/-2 cha)) or a wayang (+2 dex/+2 int/-2 wis). The tiefling has the awesome ability to hold metamagic rods in their tail if you take the feat Grasping Tail--so you can be different than every other magus and not need Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp).
So here's my suggestion for a tiefling. A nice average stat array that utilizes your strengths without dumping anything.
Str 10
Dex 16 (14 + 2)
Con 14
Int 18 (16 + 2)
Wis 10
Cha 8 (10 - 2) (any deficit here can be made up with extra skill points)
(this is a conservative spread, I dumped Cha and a little bit of str to start with an 18 in both dex and int)
Feats
Kensai - Weapon Focus (Estoc) (Pick this as your free exotic weapon proficiency (2d4 and crits on 18-20) )
Level 1 - Weapon Finesse (Estoc is finessable per its description, even if you use it in two hands)
After that whatever feat you want really.. Take Grasping Tail so that you can hold metamagic rods in your tail so you don't need metamagic feats. You get a bonus feat at 5th level you can use to get a crafting feat you want (probably Craft Wondrous Item). But whatever feats you want will work.
At level 7 I'd suggest Extra Arcana (Spell Blending - take two spells below level 3--Mage Armor and some level 2 spell, Sense Vitals is nice. My magus had Contingent Action before it was nerfed into worthlessness)
Traits
Defensive Strategist is highly desirable - since you're now a dex-based magus with no armor, and you get your int as a dodge bonus, being caught flat-footed sucks for your AC. Defensive Strategist requires you to follow a LG deity, though, so keep that in mind for your character.
Two World Magic is also extremely awesome. It allows you to get Touch of Fatigue (an offensive touch cantrip) so that you don't have to rely on cheesy arcane mark to have spell combat when you don't want to waste spells. If they fail their save they're also staggered which also is awesome.
Clever Wordplay to turn a charisma-based skill into an int based skill (I suggest UMD, though diplomacy is helpful depending on party/campaign/your character).
(My magus took Extra Traits and I also had a campaign trait to make Perception a class skill. Though stealth as a class skill is a really good option too considering tiefling bonus and high dex).
So as a kensai with no monk, you're only losing 1 AC (from the wisdom) and a couple of bonus feats that probably won't be as good as the magus class abilities + spells that you're getting back by not multiclassing. Get a +1 Agile weapon and use your arcane pool to add Keen to it when needed (i.e. every combat). You're also now focusing only on two ability scores instead of 4 (dex + int instead of str + dex + int + wis). As a Kensai, int affects your bonus spells per day, arcane pool, Dodge bonus, initiative (at 7), your concentration check (which you actually need as a magus), and probably other stuff I'm not remembering. It also gives you skills which will allow you to be super helpful out of combat and it's your basis for Spellcraft for the crafting you want to do.
I second the Unchained Monk. Better BAB, more hp, and your good Wisdom and magus levels mean your will save will still be pretty good.
His will saves will be worse with an unchained monk dip as they have Poor will saves.
| Dysphoria Blues |
Hey, Dwarftr:
For ease of reference:
Kensai Magus & Master of Many Styles Monk.
I played an android kensai magus in Pathfinder's Iron Gods AP and had an insane amount of fun.
1. Races: If you definitely decide upon Human as your race I'd recommend picking up the Dual-Talent alternate racial trait. It sacrifices your extra skill point and feat, but you're picking up another +2 to any attribute and, from my experience, the Magus can be a bit MAD so this works in heavily in your favor. Since you're already snagging Weapon Focus and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (X) for free the human bonus feat is not imperative.
Other than Human, I would recommend any race that bumps your Dexterity and Intelligence (i.e. Elf, Android (if the setting permits), or Tiefling). I might be biased, however, on how I built my own kensai magus, but I found myself simply focusing on Dexterity and Intelligence (with dem other points in Constitution, son) for AC, attack, and damage. My character had the Fencing Grace feat to utilize her rapier. I refused to devolve into another Dervish Dance magus! Yet I still found a way to the same darn thing lol. *sigh*
1.a On the side-note of weapons, I think a Katana would be a rad choice (mmm all dat flavor). If that were the case, though, then you would definitely need a higher Strength score (sacrificing points in Dex and Int) so you could actually hit with the darn thing (you cannot weapon finesse a Katana, unfortunately). Instead of the Bastard Sword, I would recommend the Estoc. The benefit with the the Katana, the Rapier, the Scimitar, and the Estoc is that they all have increased crit ranges of 18-20, which is lovely for your magus's Spellstrike.
1.b Here was how I statted my 20-point buy android kensai magus at level 1:
DEX 18 (16 + 2)
CON 14
INT 18 (16 + 2)
WIS 9
CHA 5 (7 - 2)
You could achieve the exact same stat array (or variation of) with a Human, just without the -2. (I dumped my Charisma for RP reasons :) I wanted to play a detached, emotionless android who slowly worked her way up to the Empathy feat over the progression of the campaign.)
(I'm not suggesting that this is optimal by any means, but I thought it might be helpful to just see what someone else did in a similar position.)
2. Monk Level-Dip: I second @claudekennilol on this sentiment. Unless you are dead-set on those monk levels for RP/flavor reasons I would avoid it.
Since the Kensai Magus suffers from Diminished Spellcasting, I would not sac any magus levels to further hinder that already painfully limited spell progression since spells are vital to a magus. However, if you're not looking to focus on spells really, then I guess there's no harm in the dip (but then choose another class from magus in that case)... You'll be stretched really thin when it comes to your attribute scores.
2.a In terms of AC, you have Canny Defense which is why you just buff up your Dexterity and Intelligence score. This greatly helps offshore that lack of physical armor. Plus, you have access to the Shield spell (grab that wand, son!). I think dipping into monk solely for AC reasons may be a poor choice going forward. Those four abilities between level 7 and Level 13 as a Kensai Magus(Iaijutsu, Critical Perfection, Superior Reflexes, and Iaijutsu Focus) are so friggin' cool that I wouldn't want to hinder my path to getting them as quick as possible. ;)
Hopefully that was somewhat helpful or insightful in your decision-making process. Cheers, Mate!
| Dwarftr |
As for the rest of the party, we are nicely spread out. We have the arcane/divine/tank thing covered, with some roguish skills inset as well. As i said, planning a backup incase my slayer kicks.....
I see some of the points made with dipping into monk, as a human i was alrdy looking at taking the extra +2 stat boost to get the jump on it.
Heres kinda the setup i was looking at with dip....
STR: 12
DEX: 16 (+2 boost)
CON: 13
INT: 17 (+2 boost)
WIS: 14
CHA: 8
Lvl 4 increase was going to INT. And then was hoping stat items dropped from monsters.
With the suggestions of using the Estoc which can be finesse'd is food for thought. Is there a way to get DEX to damage as well? If so then thats a few more things to think about.
Keep em coming folks!
claudekennilol
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As mentioned above, put the agile weapon enchantment on it and that'll give you dex to damage with it.
Fencing grace will work with a rapier to give dex to damage with it. But there are two versions of that feat now--one that works with spell combat and I've that doesn't... The one that doesn't is not the only one that's legal for pfs.. So ask your GM if you want to spend a feat on that and use a rapier.
Also, one thing to consider is that you can wear armor--just make sure it doesn't have an armor check penalty or a spell failure chance. A haramaki has one AC and no penalty. So you can make it magical and put other armor enchantments on it while still relying on mage armor.
| Dwarftr |
Re-visiting this build after a while.... we are starting a new campain (homebrew) from lvl 1. With some of the points the dm gave us for character creation. the biggest thing that stands out for me, and the reason i still thinking of a monk dip....
"Regarding class and archetype, it’s hard to put a foot wrong. Fast evacuation, dungeon-delving, investigation and diplomacy are all parts of your future. One thing to be careful of: two adventures re-quire no visible weapons so if you need an item to realize a build, you may find yourself inconvenienced."
So i am still looking to add the monk dip... reg monk or umonk, so im not completely dependent on weapons and items. Race wise...
"With races, all surface races will have good reason to repel the raiders. As under normal conditions, the farther you are from humans, the more challenges you might find. But really, if you can breathe air and walk around in daylight half the time, it’ll work just fine."
Im open to almost anything, but as you can see from the text above, the choices are almost endless.....
So pls, a little more advice on this post. I have to complete the character before Saturday.
Thxs in advance
Mr. Bonkers
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I'm currently using this combination on a Ratfolk in a Rappan Athuk adventure, and it is very effective for what it does. The main thing you need to realize though, is that damage-wise you'll be behind for the first 5-6 levels (Dex to damage kicked in at lvl 3 for me, so damage was almost non-existent on my strength 5 small creature...) In return, you'll become amazingly tanky, and eventually your damage output will come back to you.
My build is currently lvl 20 (we're going to face the BBEG soon), hardly ever hit at all during the process.
Ratfolk Far Strike Monk 2 / Kensai Magus 15 / Iroran Paladin 3
Starting stats: str 5 / dex 19 / con 14 / int 16 / wis 14 / cha 7
Trait: Magical Knack, Trap Finder, Wayang Spellhunter, Fate's Favored
1. Monk1: Quick Draw, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Finesse
2. Monk2: Combat Reflexes, Evasion
3. Magus1: Weapon Focus (rapier), Fencing Grace*
4. Magus2: +1 Dex
5. Magus3: Combat Expertise, Magus Arcana (Spell Blending: Mage Armor)
6. Magus4:
7. Magus5: Swordplay Style, Intensified Spell
8. Magus6: +1 Int, Magus Arcana (Familiar: Petrifern Sage/Figment)
9. Magus7: Additional Traits**
10.Magus8:
11.Magus9: Skill Focus (Swim)
12.Magus10: Elemental Spell (acid), +1 Int
13.Magus11: Improved Critical (rapier)
14.Magus12: Magus Arcana (Spell Shield)
15.Magus13: Eldritch Heritage (Aquatic)
16.Magus14: +1 Int
17.Magus15: Greater Weapon Focus, Magus Arcana (Accurate Strike) Improved Eldritch Heritage (Aquatic)
18.Paladin1:
19.Paladin2: Greater Eldritch Heritage (Aquatic)
20.Paladin3: +1 Wis
*The build was made before the Fencing Grace errata, and the GM decided to ignore said errata when it presented itself halfway through our game. If your GM wants to uphold the errata to Fencing Grace, choose a Scimitar instead and go for Dervish Dance.
**Starting this point, we we're getting kinda rich (due to not dying and finding the treasure rooms along the way). And at lvl 12, we we're insanely rich... So from that point onward, the build might no longer represent the average Monk/Magus multiclass...
Now this build might look like it lacks the great damage output from the regular nova-magus builds, and it does. The main focus of this build was to be the tank, funneling the opponents to their doom while working together with the rest of the party. It was perfect for Rappan Athuk, which is known for swarming the PCs in 5ft/10ft corridors. Starting lvl 7-9, it also started doing damage like one would expect from a Magus, without losing its tanky nature (I rarely got hit, and could count the amount of times I did get damaged on two hands until that fateful day at lvl 16...). It is a trade-off you need to be willing to make, if you want to multiclass Monk and Magus for the defensive values of the Monk.