I am very sorry if this has already been asked and properly answered, but my Google Fu did not manage to come up with anything definitive. The question, though, is pretty simple...I think?
The Regeneration entry of the Universal Monster Rules reads:
A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature’s regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature's descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning.
Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration. Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation. Regenerating creatures can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts if they are brought together within 1 hour of severing. Severed parts that are not reattached wither and die normally.
A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.
It seems pretty clear that as long as a creature's regeneration is still functioning, it is not possible for the creature to die. Is this correct?
For example, would this mean that a death effect, or any ability that just instantly kills a creature, has no effect on, say, a troll, unless that troll has already been dealt acid or fire damage in the same round, thus cancelling its regeneration?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They can't die from hp damage as long as their regeneration is functioning, but anything else can kill them.
Death effects and things that out right kill you can still cause you to die, evidenced by "attack forms that don't deal hp damage are not healed by regeneration". For example, Phantasmal Killer directly kills the target (on a failed save) and doesn't deal HP damage. Regeneration does nothing about it.
It's also worth noting that the Ring of Regeneration doesn't actually grant the regeneration special quality, it only grants effectively fast healing. Just in case that was going to be a question at some point.
I am very sorry if this has already been asked and properly answered, but my Google Fu did not manage to come up with anything definitive. The question, though, is pretty simple...I think?
The Regeneration entry of the Universal Monster Rules reads:
A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature’s regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature's descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning.
Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration. Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation. Regenerating creatures can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts if they are brought together within 1 hour of severing. Severed parts that are not reattached wither and die normally.
A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.
It seems pretty clear that as long as a creature's regeneration is still functioning, it is not possible for the creature to die. Is this correct?
For example, would this mean that a death effect, or any ability that just instantly kills a creature, has no effect on, say, a troll, unless that troll has already been dealt acid or fire damage in the same round, thus cancelling its regeneration?
Remember, even Tarrasaque gets killed by death effects: his special effect is he revives after 3 rounds though.
I suppose my confusion stems from the line "they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning". I'm not sure I see how this line is negated by "Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration".
I mean, I understand that if an attack, say, deals ability damage or whatever, the regeneration won't heal the ability damage. But this isn't the same as saying "attack forms that don't heal hit point damage" can suddenly cancel your regeneration. Regeneration being unable to heal a thing is not the same as that thing canceling the regeneration, right?
Regeneration not being able to heal a thing and cancelling regeneration are two different things.
It's just in this case you don't need to cancel the regeneration to kill the creature if you use something like Phantasmal Killer. You scare the target to death, and their regeneration just can't do anything about it.
For a fuller explanation I'll quote some previous posts on the subject:
from pathfinder chronicles monsters revisted pg 60-
Because of this, trolls rarely grow to what
scholars would consider old age—generally, trolls live to
be about 40 years old. Trolls are still subject to some of the
risks that humans are: they can be killed by viruses that
inhibit their regenerative abilities, and drowning, fire,
and acid put an end to trolls in quick order. Starvation can
also end a troll’s life. A full-grown adult troll needs up to
half its body weight in food every day. After only a few days
without sufficient food, a troll’s regenerative abilities cease
to function. Once it loses its regeneration, a troll quickly
succumbs to starvation or other natural hazards. Troll
family groups sometimes bind weak trolls, dump them
into pits, and leave them to starve to death. More often, a
weak or ill troll is simply drowned.
That's a great find Red, and it actually makes both camps right.
"...but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning ... Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature's regeneration to stop functioning.."Note that "certain" and "typically". Not JUST acid or fire, but "typically". Starvation, disease, etc can cause a creature's regeneration to stop functioning, per your cite, for example.
So, the compromise answer is that other odd forms of "death attacks" such as a failing your Fort save from a CdG simply "cause a creature's regeneration to stop functioning" thus they die. Yes, Fire and acid are TYPICAL but not ONLY, they didn't list out other rare happenings, such as Symbol of Death. In truth true death effects are rare, even Finger of death just does HP damage now.
It then appears that both the "common sense/RAI" camp and the "strict constructionist" camps are right, then.
So basically, even though only acid fire are listed as ending a creature's regeneration it's an inaccurate statement.
Drowning (which suffocates), starvation, dehydration bypass their regeneration and can kill them normally.
By the same token so do effects that kill outright on their own, such as failing the save against Phantasmal Killer or a Coup de Grace on an unconscious but regenerating troll (assuming they fail the save).
Well! I had not read that little factoid about trolls. Extrapolating from that, it would indeed seem to make sense that death effects can kill creatures with regeneration. I just wish the regeneration rules would've flat-out stated that starvation, suffocation, et cetera can actually kill something that has regeneration, rather than only vaguely stating that regeneration cannot heal damage inflicted by those things.
All this time, my group has been playing it as, if you drown a troll, all this does is leave it permanently unconscious until someone heals the damage it took. We even had a major plot point in a campaign revolve around this, now that I've read your very cogent responses, Claxon, clearly erroneous interpretation of the regeneration rules. :/
Regeneration can prevent you from death due to hit point damage, unless it's suspended by applying damage that's not affected by it.
It can not reverse death if it has already happened, which are the consequences of death effects.
Well! I had not read that little factoid about trolls. Extrapolating from that, it would indeed seem to make sense that death effects can kill creatures with regeneration. I just wish the regeneration rules would've flat-out stated that starvation, suffocation, et cetera can actually kill something that has regeneration, rather than only vaguely stating that regeneration cannot heal damage inflicted by those things.
All this time, my group has been playing it as, if you drown a troll, all this does is leave it permanently unconscious until someone heals the damage it took. We even had a major plot point in a campaign revolve around this, now that I've read your very cogent responses, Claxon, clearly erroneous interpretation of the regeneration rules. :/
I agree with you that it's not particularly clear, and they should clarify the regeneration ability o make it more apparent. It would be easy if they just added "from HP damage" after "they cannot die".