Harrow Deck

[captnchuck67]

Whats the ruling on using this in PFS online play?

[BigNorseWolf]

Pretty much anything the dm agrees to.

If it was me i'd make a random number generator 1-54? (or however many cards it is) and if you have harrowed summoning to draw 2 cards just ignore repeats.

[Woran]

harrow: 1d54 ⇒ 27

Guess the forum can roll that for you. You just need to assign a number to a card.

[chris manning]

additional resources wrote:

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea World Guide

The Harrow deck may be used if it is an actual Harrow deck. Any alternative means to simulate the Harrow deck usage, such as a normal deck of cards or dice, is not legal.

Pathfinder Player Companion: Harrow Handbook
Note: The Harrow deck, and any use of it, may be used if it is an actual Harrow deck. Any alternative means to simulate the Harrow deck usage, such as a normal deck of cards or dice, is not legal for play.

pretty sure this still stands and as such there is no way to use the harrow deck online in a PFS game - especially as there has never been a PDF release of either Harrow deck, only a physical card set

[RealAlchemy]

chris manning wrote:

additional resources wrote:

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea World Guide

The Harrow deck may be used if it is an actual Harrow deck. Any alternative means to simulate the Harrow deck usage, such as a normal deck of cards or dice, is not legal.

Pathfinder Player Companion: Harrow Handbook
Note: The Harrow deck, and any use of it, may be used if it is an actual Harrow deck. Any alternative means to simulate the Harrow deck usage, such as a normal deck of cards or dice, is not legal for play.

pretty sure this still stands and as such there is no way to use the harrow deck online in a PFS game - especially as there has never been a PDF release of either Harrow deck, only a physical card set

Shuffle and draw via Skype?

[Faelyn]

I've found the easiest way to do it is to roll 1d6 to determine the suit/alignment and the roll a 1d9 to determine to specific card in the suit/alignment. Obviously reroll doubles.

I do not agree with Chris Manning as I cannot understand why a Harrow-based character should be arbitrarily banned from online play. Perhaps there should be some sort of annotation to the AR to indicate this issue. I can understand the need for Paizo to require folks to purchase their Harrow deck from Paizo for use in PFS for face-to-face games, but to not allow random die rolls for online play is excessive.

[TwilightKnight]

Hmmm, the rules do seem to be rather specific in this case, but I'm sure we would agree that the intent is not to ban Harrow decks from online play if they are legal for live play. OTOH, the rules are clear; no dice, cards, etc to simulate the deck, period. I'm sure the rule exists at least in part to sell more Harrow decks. Perhaps when the rule was created, Paizo just did not consider online play? A simple oversight really.

It might be a problem if we just simply ignore the rule and allow a substitution for online play. If that is the case, why not allow the same exception for live play? It certainly would not be "fair" if one player was using dice to simulate the deck online, but another player is banned from doing so without investing in the product for their live local play. Sounds just as unfair as disallowing the deck online vs live play.

I think this certainly needs a clarification from the leaders otherwise it appears that as the rules exist, you cannot play a Harrower online short of a live video feed with clear view of the deck. It would also make PbP completely impossible.

[Woran]

Maybe the online VC's can look into it?

[Mark Stratton]

In the discussion on the original blog post, Mike Brock (the OPC at the time) indicated that some people might be looking at way to do this online. So, I would take it that while the rule was clear in terms of physical decks, it didn't preclude the use of a digital version for online play.

Sorry I don't know how to link the specific post, but here is the link to the second page of the discussion (Mike's post is #63.)

LINKY THING.

[GreySector]

Mark Stratton wrote:

Sorry I don't know how to link the specific post, but here is the link to the second page of the discussion (Mike's post is #63.)

LINKY THING.

Mark, the time stamp section of the post on the right of the post (to the left of the FLAG link) contains the link to the specific post.

[Mark Stratton]

Michael Eshleman wrote:

Mark Stratton wrote:

Sorry I don't know how to link the specific post, but here is the link to the second page of the discussion (Mike's post is #63.)

LINKY THING.

Mark, the time stamp section of the post on the right of the post (to the left of the FLAG link) contains the link to the specific post.

I learn something new almost every day!

CORRECTED LINKY THING TO MIKE'S POST

Thanks, Michael!

[GreySector]

Also, there is this post from John Compton on the subject.

EDIT:

Happy to help, Mark! :)

[Woran]

Michael Eshleman wrote:

Mark Stratton wrote:

Sorry I don't know how to link the specific post, but here is the link to the second page of the discussion (Mike's post is #63.)

LINKY THING.

Mark, the time stamp section of the post on the right of the post (to the left of the FLAG link) contains the link to the specific post.

Thank you! I never knew how to do this :)

[Mark Stratton]

Based on both John Compton's and Mike Brock's posts, I am convinced that on-line Harrow decks, of some form, are permitted. In fact, John's post (which Michael linked) speaks even more directly to that specific point.

[Woran]

Faelyn wrote:

I've found the easiest way to do it is to roll 1d6 to determine the suit/alignment and the roll a 1d9 to determine to specific card in the suit/alignment. Obviously reroll doubles.

That is actually a real nice way to do it.

[GreySector]

If you use Roll20, this option might work (I haven't investigated very deeply).