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Okay short and sweet: When in the Familiar's social form, it is considered an "animal" and subject to the effects of Dire Collar. What I'm curious about is when it goes Vigilante and shifts to, say, a Nosoi (assuming I understand this right), does it retain the Collar's effect if it's still within the time limit of the collar?
Raven => Activate Dire Collar (Raven becomes Small sized) => Swift action (via Social Traits) transform => Raven turns into Nosoi = Small Nosoi?
'Cause this could get rather silly if you're able to throw Mauler on a Magical Child familiar and the Vigilante form gets the benefits of both the Dire Collar and the Mauler archetype (Large sized Nosoi in this scenario).
Several issues here.
You can't have a Mauler Nosoi, because a Nosoi familiar lacks Speak With Animals of Its Kind to trade. Even if you could (as some GMs may waive the requirement, especially when the familiar sometimes isn't improved), a Mauler's size increase is Su, meaning it is magical. Multiple magical abilities that increase size do not stack. In addition, the familiar probably doesn't qualify as the animal type even in its social identity; it's just disguised as one. If you wanted to interpret "normal animal of its kind" as crunch rather than fluff, then it would lose all its familiar benefits as well, such as increased Int.
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Several issues here.
You can't have a Mauler Nosoi, because a Nosoi familiar lacks Speak With Animals of Its Kind to trade. Even if you could (as some GMs may waive the requirement, especially when the familiar sometimes isn't improved), a Mauler's size increase is Su, meaning it is magical. Multiple magical abilities that increase size do not stack. In addition, the familiar probably doesn't qualify as the animal type even in its social identity; it's just disguised as one. If you wanted to interpret "normal animal of its kind" as crunch rather than fluff, then it would lose all its familiar benefits as well, such as increased Int.
I was under the impression that size increases, like all spells, only couldn't overlap if they were the same spell, like hitting someone with Boots of Speed with a Haste spell or the like.
I was under the impression that size increases, like all spells, only couldn't overlap if they were the same spell, like hitting someone with Boots of Speed with a Haste spell or the like.Several issues here.
You can't have a Mauler Nosoi, because a Nosoi familiar lacks Speak With Animals of Its Kind to trade. Even if you could (as some GMs may waive the requirement, especially when the familiar sometimes isn't improved), a Mauler's size increase is Su, meaning it is magical. Multiple magical abilities that increase size do not stack. In addition, the familiar probably doesn't qualify as the animal type even in its social identity; it's just disguised as one. If you wanted to interpret "normal animal of its kind" as crunch rather than fluff, then it would lose all its familiar benefits as well, such as increased Int.
Nah, it's mentioned in Enlarge Person- it's a general rule. Moot point, since Mauler and the collar both won't work for other reasons. Share Spells for Enlarge Person will get you a small Nosoi, though.
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Nah, it's mentioned in Enlarge Person- it's a general rule. Moot point, since Mauler and the collar both won't work for other reasons. Share Spells for Enlarge Person will get you a small Nosoi, though.I was under the impression that size increases, like all spells, only couldn't overlap if they were the same spell, like hitting someone with Boots of Speed with a Haste spell or the like.Several issues here.
You can't have a Mauler Nosoi, because a Nosoi familiar lacks Speak With Animals of Its Kind to trade. Even if you could (as some GMs may waive the requirement, especially when the familiar sometimes isn't improved), a Mauler's size increase is Su, meaning it is magical. Multiple magical abilities that increase size do not stack. In addition, the familiar probably doesn't qualify as the animal type even in its social identity; it's just disguised as one. If you wanted to interpret "normal animal of its kind" as crunch rather than fluff, then it would lose all its familiar benefits as well, such as increased Int.
On a related note, and I've somehow gotten away with it on a Druid character of mine, Dire Collar on a Wildshaped Druid? And if that would work, would Strong Jaw stack on it or would it count as a size increase?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/strong-jaw
'Cause a Huge Dire Lion dealing out Gargantuan-sized damage in Society is silly in the best way.
Dire Collar only works on animals. Wildshaped Druid is still their original type, not animal.
First off, I don't know that the 'seemingly normal animal' in magical child animal guide means it is 'type: animal.' It seems more likely to me that it would detect as an animal (including things like having a neutral alignment), and look like an animal, but it would remain the 'type: magical beast.'
Secondly, I think any form a magical child Animal Guide adopts must follow all the rules in an of itself. Improved Familiars can't be maulers for example.
Thirdly, size increases never stack.
Forth, I believe if you no longer are a valid target for an effect the effect stops happening, much like losing the prerequisite for a feat. I don't have a direct source for this, but it does seems to track with the general rules for other things.
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First off, I don't know that the 'seemingly normal animal' in magical child animal guide means it is 'type: animal.' It seems more likely to me that it would detect as an animal (including things like having a neutral alignment), and look like an animal, but it would remain the 'type: magical beast.'
Secondly, I think any form a magical child Animal Guide adopts must follow all the rules in an of itself. Improved Familiars can't be maulers for example.
Thirdly, size increases never stack.
Forth, I believe if you no longer are a valid target for an effect the effect stops happening, much like losing the prerequisite for a feat. I don't have a direct source for this, but it does seems to track with the general rules for other things.
In looking for build advice on a Magical Child character, someone suggested dipping two levels into Eldritch Guardian, which gives you a Familiar and the ability to gift your familiar with your combat feats. Would taking levels in Magical Child overwrite the Eldritch Guardian familiar or simply tack ontop of it (Like so you had a familiar but now it can do THIS)?
In looking for build advice on a Magical Child character, someone suggested dipping two levels into Eldritch Guardian, which gives you a Familiar and the ability to gift your familiar with your combat feats. Would taking levels in Magical Child overwrite the Eldritch Guardian familiar or simply tack ontop of it (Like so you had a familiar but now it can do THIS)?
I would say that has a couple ways to look at it, which i'm not sure would be correct.
I think it is fairly clear that when the familiar is in its vigilante identity everything works as you would expect. Familiar has all the powers and abilities you would expect and can freely use the feats from eldritch guardian.
When it is in its seemingly normal form it is questionable what happens. I an unsure if the social form magical child animal guide retains alertness, improved evasion, shared spells and empathic link. I would guess that it retrains its normal (familiar) hit points, stats etc.
If it loses powers, would it have them again if it was also a familiar from another class or would the 'seemingly normal animal' transformation override that? If it had the powers it would seem possible to detect that it wasn't a normal animal. If it doesn't, it doesn't fully make sense as the other class would seem to still be modify the familiar.
Some of this applies to what would happen if you multiclass any class with vigilante. I get scrying failing when I'm looking for Bruce Wayne and he is Batman, but if my archenemy is a Wizard 19/Vigilante 1 and I am looking for the wizard that just screwed me over, I don't really care that he is one level where sometimes he wears his underwear outside his clothes. I'm looking for a powerful wizard. In either guise he is more wizard than anything else, and all that renown for being one of the greatest wizards in the world shouldn't really be hidden by a single level of vigilante.
Personally, I would have preferred the whole dual identity mechanic to be done via feats, rather than a class so that a) anyone could be a secret hero and b) it would apply to a character not just levels of a given class.