Reaching into the Pit...

[Scrawl Da'Wall]

Ok assuming create pit 30'. A large biped wielding a reach weapon wants to attack those trying to climb out.

He must remain 5' away from the edge or suffer a chance to fall in himself.

So Large Biped with reach weapon = 15'-20' reach.

The pit is 10'x10' & 30' deep.

Could he reach 10' deep on close edge & 5' on far edge of pit?

Could a huge with reach weapon (20'-30') then reach 20' feet close edge

& 15' deep far edge?

Is my math correct?

[Dave Justus]

You would have some issues with line of effect. Basically imagine the pit turned on its side, so it would be mapped like a corridor with diagonal widening corners

Something like
.
.
.
.

.X
..\________
.. ________|
. /

then figure out where the targets would have full and partial cover, with the reach of the opponent.

[Scrawl Da'Wall]

I guess it concerns whether this is a 2 dimensional game or a 3 dimensional game. With normal sized characters with normal reach every thing except flight is basically 2-D. Add in large+ characters & reach and 3-D questions start to surface.

(each space is 5ft I changed diagram because pit is 10' wide)

Large

XX
XX
....\_________
.......................|
.... _________|
..../

Huge

XXX
XXX
XXX
.......\_________
........................|
....... ________|
......./

It also would depend on whether you can change the angle of direction of the reach weapon you are wielding. Its commonplace in reality (a man using a shovel) but I cant find a ruling that allows it in pathfinder.

I guess I will just ask my DM...

(sigh when I edit the diagram it looks perfect...hit submit & it all goes weird)

[Gauss]

First, Pathfinder has limited rules for modeling 3d space and they do not cover this situation so 3d examples like the one below are a common extrapolation of the existing rules.

If you can draw a line from the highest point (15' up and 5' away from the pit) to any part of the target then you can attack that target using a ranged weapon or reach weapon. Here is an image that shows which squares you can reach using the ranged attack/reach weapon rules.

If you do not have unobstructed lines to all corners of the target then that target has cover.
In the image above the green lines indicate where the two giants (large and huge) could attack but more lines would have to be drawn to determine if the target has cover.

[Scrawl Da'Wall]

Thanks Gauss! That image is very helpful.

[Manly-man teapot]

Basically, with 10' reach you can attack them at the top (before the slope) but they have cover (but no Dex, because they're climbing). With 20' reach, you can attack him 5' lower from the opposite side of the pit.

[Dave Justus]

Gauss wrote:

Here is an image that shows which squares you can reach using the ranged attack/reach weapon rules.

A sloped pit would be slightly different, but the basic concept is the same. Nice Illustration.

[Gauss]

The problem with the "slope" is that the grade is not defined.

It is a save mechanic that states you must save or fall in. It is not a defined terrain feature and thus, would either have to be GM defined or ignored for the purposes of determining cover (as shown in my illustration above).

[Ascalaphus]

The way I see it, a pit is a two-way street. You take an enemy out of the fight for a while, but the enemy is also much harder for you to get to (safely). Notice also that Create Pit is not dismissable at will.

It's extremely good for splitting up a mob of enemies into manageable chunks, but less ideal against a single enemy.