What is the affect of hosing a target with gallons of Holy water / burning oil.

[Fabian Stretton]

Hi,

The Question IS.
Does burning oil/holy water do more damage if there is more of it. Local DM says the rules say 2d4 (Holy water) regardless of the amount
- even though the rules seem clear that this a for 1 flask (1 Pint) when it breaks, splashing the target.

The reason the question arises:

My character has been pondering on how to make oil/holy water more effective, and has discovered the following interesting item:

(From Pathfinder Player Companion - Adventurers Armory - P7 - last item. Pump Water Canister, cost 75gp / weight 5 lb (empty)
(Similar in cost/weight to the Jetcaster)

What it normally does is pump a gallon of water (8 flasks) a round, saturating a 5' square and putting out fires within the square.
What you get is an item that hoses 8 flasks of liquid a round up to 10' away (full rd action which provokes a AoO)- unlike the jetcaster (std action no AoO) which sprays 4 flasks over a 10'x10'cone.

In context a garden hose with good pressure and a spray nozzle pumps out about 1/4 of this - so think fire hose, not garden hose.

What if you fill it with a holy water instead (it can hold up to 4 gallons = 4 shots at 8 flasks per shot):
From my perspective - when compared to a flask:

The downsides:

a) Max range 10' (hose) vs effective range 30' (flask) + the AoO if you are within range (probably).
c) Expensive (200gp/shot vs 25 gp/shot)
d) Heavy (13lb if loaded with 1 shot, 37lb if loaded with 4 shots) vs 1 lb/shot.
[11.5 lb/shot with a gallon of lamp oil / 31 lb with 4 gallons) [ lamp oil is 0.8x the density of water ]

The benefits:

1) No "to hit" roll as you are hosing down a target. options:
- 8 Flasks hit, roll reflex for half (i.e. fireball like), or
- 1d4+4 Flasks hit (it's very hard to miss at 10' with a fire hose) and each missed flask adds 1pt splash damage all surrounding squares.
2) Can flood 1d4+4 squares in the same time it takes to normally flood 1 with a flask (inefficient but faster).
3) "Lots of Damage" (i.e. the target isn't so much splashed/wet as taking a bath) hence should be bigger damage.
Very good at dealing with swarms :-) [says I remembering the AC19 evil swarm from last session].

What if you fill it with a gallons of Lamp oil instead?

The main downside with the aimed oil option is you need the target or target SQUARE to be burning first - Or ignite it the following round.
i.e. - co-ordinate with the sorcerer with burning hands OR
i.e. - Use Alchemists fire on the following round (aim at ground to immolate square and everything in it.

(Alchemists fire is corrosive - it can't be used)
Acid won't work for the same reasons - unless you make it from Blue Dragon hide (VERY Expensive).

[Ascalaphus]

The trivial answer to your question is: there exists no rule for this.

That doesn't mean it doesn't make sense, but there's just no rule for it. So this is the time when the GM has to make up a ruling to fit the gap.

[Wonderstell]

Hi there Fabian!

Fabian Stretton wrote:

Does burning oil/holy water do more damage if there is more of it. Local DM says the rules say 2d4 (Holy water) regardless of the amount

- even though the rules seem clear that this a for 1 flask (1 Pint) when it breaks, splashing the target.

Yes, the rules are clear that 2d4 damage is for 1 pint. However, nowhere does it mention that more Holy Water would result in more damage. It is therefore GM territory. What your GM says, stands.

It is logical that bathing your enemies in Holy Water would mean more damage dealt, like it is for acid, but this would all be Houserules. You have to come to an agreement with your GM, and (s)he has the right to say no.

*****

Now, I see a big problem with your treatment of the Pump Water Canister.

That being being that you intend to use it as a weapon, when there is no indication of you being able to use it in such a way.

Fabian Stretton wrote:

The benefits:

1) No "to hit" roll as you are hosing down a target. options:
- 8 Flasks hit, roll reflex for half (i.e. fireball like), or
- 1d4+4 Flasks hit (it's very hard to miss at 10' with a fire hose) and each missed flask adds 1pt splash damage all surrounding squares.

An attack needs an attack roll. You can't circumvent this requirement by using the Canister just because it doesn't mention an attack roll. By the same logic, you wouldn't be able to fill it with Holy Water since that isn't mentioned in its description.

From a game-balance perspective, you are trying to cram 8 attacks into one standard action without the need for an attack roll.

If I were the GM, I would allow you to use the Canister for Holy Water with the following limitations:

-You need to make a ranged attack roll for every pint of Holy Water you pump out.

-You can only pump out a maximum amount of pints equal to your attacks in a Full-Attack sequence. So if you have BAB +6 and Rapid shot, then you would be able to pump out 3 pints per round, as a full-round action.

-This would function as an Improvised Weapon, since it clearly wasn't meant for combat. This will entail a -4 nonproficiency penalty to your attack rolls.