If it is a magical device a rogue with Trapfinding can disarm it.
How? - Its magic.
Perhaps draw the correct take-it-off-runes on it, disrupt the flux-combumbulator-thaumaturm-flow or make it think you just spoke the correct command word etc.
Indedendend of that, if you have no thief tools, no roll if your DM sais you cant improvise this with spit and fingernails.
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What also might be is that this is a cursed item, for which you'd need Remove Curse or some substitutes thereof.
But if it is a variant of Magical Menacles working correctly, then you should get a DD or EA roll.
A magical collar is not a trap and trapfinding only allows the disabling of magical traps not all magical devices of any kind. If the GM creates a door that is magically sealed and can't be opened without magic that is his call.
Also while PCs cannot create cursed items there is no rule against NPCs doing so.
GM fiat is a thing, GM can just declare something unachievable.
Not a good thing and sometimes it is a sign of an inexperienced GM.
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If the GM says you can't remove the collar with a DD check, then you can't. You're just going to have to be really devious and come up with some other way of removing the collar.
You might be able to have it cut off if you agree that the process will damage your PC's neck, possibly with massive scars, and damage to the vocal chords reducing the character's voice to a harsh whisper, and taking a permanent 1d4 CHA damage/drain in the process. As a GM, trust me: we love that kind of thing. :)
Or you could come up with something less drastic that still satisfies the "Rule of Cool".
Think of the collar as a challenge not for your character, but for you as a player.
If the GM says you can't remove the collar with a DD check, then you can't. You're just going to have to be really devious and come up with some other way of removing the collar.
You might be able to have it cut off if you agree that the process will damage your PC's neck, possibly with massive scars, and damage to the vocal chords reducing the character's voice to a harsh whisper, and taking 1d4 CHA damage in the process. As a GM, trust me: we love that kind of thing. :)
Or you could come up with something less drastic that still satisfies the "Rule of Cool".
Think of the collar as a challenge not for your character, but for you as a player.
Are the collars enchanted to magically resize? If not a reduce person might allow an escape.
I realize this won't help your current predicament (unless you somehow level up and gain a feat while wearing the collar), but for future reference I believe Disable Dweomer is what you want.
I realize this won't help your current predicament (unless you somehow level up and gain a feat while wearing the collar), but for future reference I believe Disable Dweomer is what you want.
Except then it might just become a normal seamless solid metal collar. There is no way to really slip out of that. So you are still stuck with the collar. If they are something like a shock collar that won't let you leave the area that only gives you 2d4 rounds to escape before they reactivate. If they are just trackers well 2d4 rounds won't get you very far ahead.
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I realize this won't help your current predicament (unless you somehow level up and gain a feat while wearing the collar), but for future reference I believe Disable Dweomer is what you want.Except then it might just become a normal seamless solid metal collar. There is no way to really slip out of that. So you are still stuck with the collar. If they are something like a shock collar that won't let you leave the area that only gives you 2d4 rounds to escape before they reactivate. If they are just trackers well 2d4 rounds won't get you very far ahead.
Exactly, a normal seamless solid metal collar. Break it. Masterwork Manacles (the closest example) have Hardness 10, 10 HP, and a Break DC of 28. Difficult but not impossible.
Exactly, a normal seamless solid metal collar. Break it. Masterwork Manacles (the closest example) have Hardness 10, 10 HP, and a Break DC of 28. Difficult but not impossible.I realize this won't help your current predicament (unless you somehow level up and gain a feat while wearing the collar), but for future reference I believe Disable Dweomer is what you want.Except then it might just become a normal seamless solid metal collar. There is no way to really slip out of that. So you are still stuck with the collar. If they are something like a shock collar that won't let you leave the area that only gives you 2d4 rounds to escape before they reactivate. If they are just trackers well 2d4 rounds won't get you very far ahead.
That would still require having a tool to break it. As a GM I would not let a character just grab a steel collar and tear it in two with their bare hands. If they are being forced to do some kind of labor, like mining, such tools, like picks and hammers, might be readily available so that might not be an issue.
I wouldn't let them work on their own collar either, or at least would give a major penalty to do so because they can't see it adequately.
According to the rules of Pathfinder, anything is possible.
But a seamless metal collar? That sounds like the DC to break would be high 20's at the bare minimum, and the DC to slip out of it would be...hell it would be at least 50. You'd have to either partially crush your head, or dislocate all four of your limbs.
As the GM I would say "Yes, you can try to break it/slip out. Roll the check...ok you failed".
"It was a nat 20!"
"Yup, so now you know that you aren't skilled enough to do it."
"I'm level 15 with max ranks!"
"Yup."
Thanks to everyone who replied. I appreciate your time. And while I disagree with nearly all of you, I appreciate the feedback. :)
That is a really good attitude to have on the forums, especially the rules forums. I appreciate your openness to opposing ideas.
I would only allow a DD check if you had appropriate tools. In this case, appropriate tools may include some kind of splicer. An escape artist check I would certainly allow, but the DC would be something talked about in the epic level handbooks.
Not impossible. Just so incredibly hard it's not possible to make the check in your current situation.
Thanks to everyone who replied. I appreciate your time. And while I disagree with nearly all of you, I appreciate the feedback. :)
All kinds of things in Pathfinder are 'hand-wavey'. *How* the rogue finds a gas trap or a pit trap, how she disables a magical rune trap, how he activates a magical device isn't always revealed. There isn't always a correlation between real-world logic and how it works in-game.
Just because the cell bars are only 6 inches apart doesn't mean the rogue can't make an escape artist check. We don't get out the medical dictionary to determine how much crushing force a human can actually survive - he's a character in a fantasy setting, he makes the check, and know he's stealthing to safety. That's why it's fun.
If not a DD check, maybe an escape artist check. If not an EA check, maybe a use magic device check. I find the 'completely impossible due to real world logic' response inconsistent with how most gaming works. If we fall back on that, then nothing is really possible.
Everything in PF works as it does in the real world unless the rules specify or the GM decides otherwise. Sorry but the, "Yes I can squeeze through the keyhole of my cell with an escape artist check because this isn't the real world" answer is absurd.
You came here asking if your GM was justified in his ruling and just about everyone has given you the same answer, yes he is being reasonable. I know you are not satisfied with that answer because it does not get you what you want which you have now made obvious was your agenda for asking the question in the first place. You didn't accept your GMs reasoning and despite the fact that nearly everyone here has given you the same response you still refuse to accept that your position may be the wrong one.
Everything in PF works as it does in the real world unless the rules specify or the GM decides otherwise. Sorry but the, "Yes I can squeeze through the keyhole of my cell with an escape artist check because this isn't the real world" answer is absurd.
Actually, according to the 3.5 epic level handbook, you can squeeze through a wall of force with an escape artist check of 100.
Heh.
You came here asking if your GM was justified in his ruling and just about everyone has given you the same answer, yes he is being reasonable. I know you are not satisfied with that answer because it does not get you what you want which you have now made obvious was your agenda for asking the question in the first place. You didn't accept your GMs reasoning and despite the fact that nearly everyone here has given you the same response you still refuse to accept that your position may be the wrong one.
Now come on, that's a little uncalled for. He's still disagreeing with us but that doesn't mean he's being unreasonable or a dick. He actually just posted how he's appreciating our responses. No need for the hostilities.
Everything in PF works as it does in the real world unless the rules specify or the GM decides otherwise. Sorry but the, "Yes I can squeeze through the keyhole of my cell with an escape artist check because this isn't the real world" answer is absurd.Actually, according to the 3.5 epic level handbook, you can squeeze through a wall of force with an escape artist check of 100.
Heh.
You came here asking if your GM was justified in his ruling and just about everyone has given you the same answer, yes he is being reasonable. I know you are not satisfied with that answer because it does not get you what you want which you have now made obvious was your agenda for asking the question in the first place. You didn't accept your GMs reasoning and despite the fact that nearly everyone here has given you the same response you still refuse to accept that your position may be the wrong one.Now come on, that's a little uncalled for. He's still disagreeing with us but that doesn't mean he's being unreasonable or a dick. He actually just posted how he's appreciating our responses. No need for the hostilities.
I did not say he was being a dick at all, or call him any names at all for that matter. I do believe he is being unreasonable and simply stated my opinion to that fact.
I believe that not because he simply disagrees but because his argument for his disagreement contains such an obvious logical absurdity that it cannot have been presented in good faith. Pointing that out isn't "being hostile".
So I stand by my position that he is coming here not looking for honest answers but to validate his position to try and force his GM to rule in his favor.
So I stand by my position that he is coming here not looking for honest answers but to validate his position to try and force his GM to rule in his favor.You misunderstand the situation. The session was played, the character blown to bits. I have no plans to try to 'force my GM' to do anything.
I presented what I feel is a straightforward scenario - if i put this contrived 'magical bondage device' on a PC, is there no option for removing it? Said device apparently prevents spellcasting and reflects all physical damage at the wearer.
Apparently there is a consensus about the scenario. That's fine, I simply don't agree with that consensus. I would think some use of disable device, escape artist, use magic device, or some skill I'm not not considering might be useful.
That's all.
Well then the straightforward answer is that. Yeah a GM can make such a plot device and it is reasonable to do so depending on the scenario.
The new information that said plot device somehow resulted in at least one character being blown to bits while unable to use magic having all physical damage being redirected sounds like it may not have been so reasonable but that would require further information.
Also tell your GM to stop ripping off his ideas from old Star Trek episodes! LoL
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708466/
Edit: Actually it sounds more like the A'dam from the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan.
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I would think some use of disable device, escape artist, use magic device, or some skill I'm not not considering might be useful. (primarily because the rogue's skill monkey abilities are written/interpreted broadly as a non-magical foil to the spell caster)
That's all.
I can see where you're coming from. Based on my experience, when these kinds of situations arise, it's usually because the GM wants to encourage you to do something with you PC that goes beyond his stats, skills, and abilities. When that happens, you need to use out-of-the-box thinking and I find that it's best to try applying the Rule of Cool, usually in a way that sacrifices something.
So my PC is imprisoned wearing a magical collar. It is described as a 'seamless piece of magical metal without any mechanism'. As such, my rogue is given no ability to make a skill check to remove it.
Does this seem right? Should I not be entitled to a disable device or escape artist check regardless of fluff? Or is #becausemagic a sufficient denier of skill usage?
There is no rule that says you must be able to remove something. The GM is not breaking any rules, and he is not objectively wrong, at least not according to the comment I am replying too.
I can see where you're coming from. Based on my experience, when these kinds of situations arise, it's usually because the GM wants to encourage you to do something with you PC that goes beyond his stats, skills, and abilities. When that happens, you need to use out-of-the-box thinking and I find that it's best to try applying the Rule of Cool, usually in a way that sacrifices something.Generally I would agree with this sentiment. My PC was a sneaky halfling rogue, so I immediately tried to 'hide within the crowd' of the other prisoners - but was ratted out by another inmate within seconds (apparently random inmates can beat my 25+ stealth check). I tried to form an alliance with one of the inmate 'gang leaders', going the 'we can all escape if we work together' route (since I'm also the party face) - but the response I got was 'I'll help you only if you kill this other party member'. I wasn't sure what else could be sacrificed (we had already lost all money/gear) except our lives (which is what I ended up sacrificing to try to help the rest of the group take a step towards *possible* escape).
You may have been getting heavily railroaded then, which I don't like. I don't know the GM's intentions so I can't say for sure.
If that was the case he still did not break any rules, even though many players hate being forced down a certain path with no other options.PS: I am curious now as to what he really wanted you to do.