Hello,
I was wondering if the cleric Archetypes
"Undead Lord" and "Herald Caller"
Conflict?
Undead lord says:
"An undead lord must select the Death domain (and the Undead subdomain). She does not gain a second domain.
In all other respects, this works like and replaces the standard cleric’s domain ability."
While Herald Caller says:
"A herald caller depends on summoned allies to overcome her foes, which affords her little experience with the martial pursuits typical of other clerics and a narrower spiritual focus. A herald caller can choose only one domain from her deity's list of domains, rather than the normal two domains, and she doesn't gain proficiency with medium armor or shields.
This ability alters the cleric's domains and armor proficiencies."
So the first says, I do not get a second domain, while the other archetype says I can only choose 1 domain.
It makes sense, right?
This is for a cool idea for a Skeleton Summoner/Charnel Soldier/ Cleric/Inquisitor Gestalt.
Would anyone help me with understanding the faq they made in regards to this?
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fn#v5748eaic9thg
"In general, if a class feature grants multiple subfeatures, it’s OK to take two archetypes that only change two separate subfeatures. This includes two bard archetypes that alter or replace different bardic performances (even though bardic performance is technically a single class feature) or two fighter archetypes that replace the weapon training gained at different levels (sometimes referred to as “weapon training I, II, III, or IV”) even though those all fall under the class feature weapon training. However, if something alters the way the parent class feature works, such as a mime archetype that makes all bardic performances completely silent, with only visual components instead of auditory, you can’t take that archetype with an archetype that alters or replaces any of the sub-features. This even applies for something as small as adding 1 extra round of bardic performance each day, adding an additional bonus feat to the list of bonus feats you can select, or adding an additional class skill to the class. As always, individual GMs should feel free to houserule to allow small overlaps on a case by case basis, but the underlying rule exists due to the unpredictability of combining these changes."
Does this just mean, if the GM allows it, its good?
But now that I am looking at it, by raw, it looks like replace and altering would not work.
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Basically, the FAQ is saying that you CAN combine two archetypes that touch different 'sub-features' of a single feature.
For example, if one archetype modifies or replaces 'Weapon Training I' while the other mods/replaces 'Weapon Training III'. However, if they both touched 'Weapon Training I' (including if one of them touched 'Weapon Training' in general) then they could not be combined.
Both the Undead Lord and Herald Caller archetypes touch the Cleric 'domains' ability, and thus they cannot be combined per normal rules (i.e. without the GM making an exception).
If your GM allows anything, you're fine.
The rule exists so characters can't substitute out the same class feature twice for different benefits, thereby effectively having two class features for the price of one. By strict RAW, even altering a feature triggers the prohibition for banning the combination.
However, a GM should take things case by case. For example, the Inquisitor Heretic archetype adds a new Judgment to the list of Judgments available but this new feature doesn't change anything else about Judgment. Several other Inquisitor archetypes replace Judgment entirely. I have seen GMs allow this type of combination because the character doesn't get a double-dip benefit from the two archetypes (any benefit from the Heretic's modification of Judgment is removed by the other archetype's wholesale removal Judgment). This is, of course, up to each individual GM to allow or not.
This makes a lot of sense now.
Thank you to you and CBdunderkson for the clarification.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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The rule exists so characters can't substitute out the same class feature twice for different benefits
a GM should take things case by case. For example, the Inquisitor Heretic archetype adds a new Judgment to the list
sub, swap, replace, alter, add, remove, etc.
All actions on a feature block. Also things like something that adds to a list of choices to a feature will not stack with something that requires a choice at 1st.
As for the GM, there is a concept called "Rule 0" and it is spelled out at the start of the book. A GM can change any rule at any time any way he would like it to be. So any GM can deviate from the archetype stacking rules for his players.