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Hi gang. I was doing a little digging for a charging martial character idea. In doing so, I came across the "Minotaur's Charge" feat.
Minotaur's Charge
Source Classic Monsters Revisited pg. 43
Your charge sends foes reeling away, knocking them to the ground.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Improved Bull Rush, powerful charge.
Benefit: When you hit an opponent with a charge attack, you might also initiate a bull rush as a free action. This does not require you to move into your opponent’s square and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If you successfully push your opponent 15 feet or more, he is also knocked prone.
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Naturally, My first reaction was, "Sweet cuppin' cakes! I need to see if this is legal in PFS!"
*Checks additional resources*
And, yes, Under Classic Monsters Revisited, AR states that the feat is legal for use.
*Looks at Prerequisites*
Next came, "Hmm, 'Powerful charge'? Never heard of that feat..."
*Digs some more*
*Digs Harder*
Then, I discovered that Powerful Charge is not a feat, but an extraordinary ability exclusive to monsters.
So this begs the question: How is a PFS-legal PC supposed to gain this PFS-legal feat, when a PFS legal PC can't obtain the monster-exclusive Powerful Charge ability? (Or at least can't obtain it via any means I've looked through.)
This is more of an honest inquiry than a complaint. I'm curious how this is supposed to work out.
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Oooohhhh! All right.
Unfortunately, a Brawler dipping 4 levels in Druid to get wild shape before being able to use Martial Flexibility to snag that feat won't quite cut the mustard for the build I'm aiming for.
Since the main question has been answered, if I can tweak the topic a square to the left: What do you guys think of Charge-/Bull Rush-/Overrun-style builds in regards to their usefulness in PFS goes?
I like the idea of granting my allies Free AoO's with the GREATER versions of the feats. And using Rhino Charge to prep charges against wicked spellcasters ("When he starts casting I charge") sounds like a great way to save some people's bacon.
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The only hesitation I have with any of those builds is that you often need to debrief your GM on the nuts and bolts of your character. This isn't a deterrent; just something to plan for. For example, whenever I play my feinting halfling opportunist, I have a page-long GM cheat sheet with the rules text of all my abilities (such as how to calculate feint DCs, what her exploitative maneuver is). Combat maneuvers can be devastatingly effective, though you do run into trouble in higher levels when you fight very large creatures with high CMDs.
Basically, it's like most builds. Will be generally ok, but sometimes you'll run into problems. Some consumables will help you out, as will having a backup plan. The important part is if you have fun with it.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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And using Rhino Charge to prep charges against wicked spellcasters ("When he starts casting I charge") sounds like a great way to save some people's bacon.
You can't ready an action to charge as it is a full round action.
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.
If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.
When you take a readied action, it is outside of your turn.
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And using Rhino Charge to prep charges against wicked spellcasters ("When he starts casting I charge") sounds like a great way to save some people's bacon.You can't ready an action to charge as it is a full round action.
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.When you take a readied action, it is outside of your turn.
Rhino Charge (Combat)
Your charges are both violent and unpredictable.Prerequisites: Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: You may ready a charge, though you may only move up to your speed on the charge.
Normal: Charging is a full-round action and allows you to move twice your speed.
From PPC: Sargava, the Lost Colony
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And using Rhino Charge to prep charges against wicked spellcasters ("When he starts casting I charge") sounds like a great way to save some people's bacon.You can't ready an action to charge as it is a full round action.
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.When you take a readied action, it is outside of your turn.
My favorite parts of these little discussions is when someone takes the time to say "you can't do that" but doesn't take the time to read the original post with the feat that, indeed, lets them do that.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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My favorite parts of these little discussions is when someone takes the time to say "you can't do that" but doesn't take the time to read the original post with the feat that, indeed, lets them do that.
I didn't read the feat, because there is basically no way for a character to take it.
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My favorite parts of these little discussions is when someone takes the time to say "you can't do that" but doesn't take the time to read the original post with the feat that, indeed, lets them do that.I didn't read the feat, because there is basically no way for a character to take it.
To be perfectly clear, you didn't read the Rhino Charge feat information, which is the (completely legal, fairly easy prereqs, mentioned fairly often) feat that lets someone Ready a Charge?
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My favorite parts of these little discussions is when someone takes the time to say "you can't do that" but doesn't take the time to read the original post with the feat that, indeed, lets them do that.I didn't read the feat, because there is basically no way for a character to take it.
There's no way for a PC to have Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, and a BAB of +5?
That's what you get for posting on the forums while you're playing at my table, Eshleman. :P
You're correct; there's no way for PCs to gain access to that feat barring an exceptional circumstance.
However, a rhino companion or another animal companion that gets powerful charge would be able to take that feat.
In order for you to take it legally, other than as you have pointed out, there is a pretty easy way to do so. Those with the ability to Beast Shape or Wild Shape technically meet the prerequisites for taking this feat due to being able to transform into said creature that has this monster ability.
However, as the rules for feats state, if at any point you lose access to a prerequisite for the feat you have selected, the feat becomes inactive until you either regain the prerequisite ability/feat, or you take the time to retrain the feat into something else that you qualify for. Therefore, the feat would only be usable while in those forms that grant Powerful Charge. It'd be a waste of a feat IMO since it'll only be useful for as long as your spell or wild shape lasts. Very situational.
As for legality in a player obtaining this, all you would have to do is use the feat retraining ruleset and learn the feat while in said form, thus meeting the prerequisites. It's a roundabout way of doing so, and I would probably rule it to allow the player to obtain it without having to waste the time and money to do it.
