Alright... So I've been thinking a lot about pathfinder and wanted to make a character outside my comfort route (Aka: not a Oracle or Oracle/XXX Mulitclass build). This came up with the lack of interesting Curses to play with my character and only so much Duel Curse can spice things up before getting old again.
Anyway, with that story out of the way - I wanted some advice for creating a Mounted Combat summoner. I've had a few concepts in mind, but they all come back to a Lancer on the back of a Mighty Beast not from this world. However, I've been having a big of trouble.
Mainly, with the thought of Fire Emblem games, I've wanted to make a Wyvern Rider who rides on the back of a mighty dragon steed, and have been wanting to make a Lancer Summoner for a while since Fates was released. However, there are an extreme number of restrictions for this type, and even more restricted due to Pathfinder Society.
So, options include:
- Elemental Quadruped
- Elemental Serpentine
- Protean Quadruped
- Protean Serpentine
Due to these severer limitations, and the limitations related to the choices I have, which do you think I should choose? Perhaps make a flavorful mount from something like Harry Potter (those horses you can't see unless someone died?). Elementals would be tricky because you'ed pretty much HAVE to choose Earth cuz reasons. What do you guys think I should pick and why?
Moving forward, I'm planning on taking the feat Undersized Mount (Advanced Classes Guide) so that I won't have to pick a small sized class and I wouldn't have to wait until level 8 to be a Mounted Summoner. That being said, Feats are otherwise free and traits/origins are still being thought of.
Regarding Race though, I've come up with three I really like.
Human - Extra Feat at level 1, and I can't help but see him make a connection with a Protean Wyvern who he packed with in order to survive a siege against his village. Extra Feat at level 1 gives me Undersized Mount AND Weapon Proficency (Lance) for the build.
Half-Elf - Summoner Evolutions +1/4 every level along with access to the Archetype to give me another +1/4th evolution every level, effectively giving me +1/2 evolution points per summoner level. I like a lot and I would really enjoy it. However, the extra evolutions are the only advantage I can see in PFS. What do you guys think?
Half-Orc - I always like the thought of an outsider, and it makes it even more interesting to have an idea for a Charisma Based Half-Orc. However, sadly, this only goes flavor deep and I have no real reason for this Half-Orc... Any ideas anyone?
Also, any advice for a Mounted Summoner, please give and I will be happy to listen, thanks!
Undersized Mount can be a bit unreliable. Your quadruped Eidolon with Str 14 has a carrying capacity of 58/116/175.
As per this page, the average weight for a medium-sized character is:
175 lbs. (human, male)
140 lbs. (human, female)
155 lbs. (half-elf, male)
135 lbs. (half-elf, female)
241 lbs. (half-orc, male)
201 lbs. (half-orc, female)
Your eidolon, at 1st level, is physically unable to carry a naked average half-orc character. It can carry the average human, but about any gear will put you above the weight limit.
But say that you are a female half-elf, and a slim one. You can be the world's slimmest female half-elf, weighing 100 lbs. Your mount will be at medium load (so long as you don't carry gear that weighs more than 16 lbs.; if you do, the mount will be at heavy load).
With that in mind, do you still want to be a member of a medium-sized race?
Okay.... so what are the drawbacks at being Medium Load?
Also, I would very much like to try to have a Level 1 Summoner Mount somehow... Is there a feat that the Eidolon can take that will increase his carry compassion? How would it work?
Really don't want to HAVE to wait until level 8 to Ride them, let alone level 9 to even be good at it, considering the game is half way done after that...
How would you say to make a Gremnlin Lancer? Cavalier with Order of the Chimera? How would it work?
Okay.... so what are the drawbacks at being Medium Load?
Well, at medium load the movement is reduced from 40 feet to 30 feet, max Dex to AC becomes +3 (not really an issue for the quadruped eidolon), and there's a -3 penalty on all Str- and Dex-based skill checks. Heavy load is what you want to avoid like a plague for the mount. Max Dex drops to +1, and the penalty becomes -6. You don't want a flying mount with that penalty on Fly checks, do you?
Also, I would very much like to try to have a Level 1 Summoner Mount somehow... Is there a feat that the Eidolon can take that will increase his carry compassion? How would it work?
Small-sized races just work better, and can do it at 1st level... There are no feats that increase carrying capacity that I know of, but there are some magic items, like muleback cords (probably more, but a quick Google isn't giving me more).
Do note that muleback cords take your shoulder slot, so no cloak of resistance if you use it.
How would you say to make a Gremnlin Lancer? Cavalier with Order of the Chimera? How would it work?
Sorry, I don't understand the question here.
I apologize for the confusion caused by my response. I noticed my original response was not saved and I was in a rush for response. I stated how much the Wayang looked like Gremlins, hence the reason I said the "Gremlin Lancer" in my past post...
As I was saying, here was what i was thinking for my character maybe:
Gizmo Grimlynn (Male Wayang) Level 1 (Summoner 1)
Stats: (15 Point Buy)
15 STR [+2 Mod]
14 CON [+2 Mod]
12 DEX (+2) [+1 Mod]
12 INT (+2) [+1 Mod]
8 WIS (-2) [-1 Mod]
13 CHA [+1 Mod]
Next time I gain stat points, I would increase STR and CHA.
So after level 1, what would the approach be? Cavalier with the Order of the Chimera? Dragoon Fighter? What advice would be from there?
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Yo! I've got a level 5 mounted Summoner running in PFS a this moment. Feel free to check this profile for a breakdown of my stats. (Note that I have Power Attack as a first level feat due to Retraining Shenanigans) I'd add the Eidolon, but the page is being uncooperative. The shirt version: Quadruped Demon Eidolon, Improved Unarmed Strike and Dragon Style for its feats. Evolutions are Mount, Reach, and Climb. Having a mount with a climb speed is tremendously helpful for navigating awkward terrain.
Wayangs lack the strength penalty, yes, but Halflings have a pretty decent stat spread that gives you some leeway in a 20 point buy. Plus, Outrider is great for making those Mounted Combat checks. And don't forget that Adaptable Luck is amazing for those few big charges you want to get.
Having a medium character require a large Eidolon is almost a blessing in disguise: For mounted combat to hit really really hard, you'll need Power Attack, Furious Focus, the Mounted Combat tree up to Spirited Charge, AND lance proficiency. That many feats take time to build up. But in the mean time, you can play a 'traditional' melee summoner, using a longspear and threatening tons of squares with a long-necked Eidolon.
If you want to kick start the feats, I find that one level of Dragoon Fighter is the best dip you can take. Lance proficiency, a bonus feat that you would have taken anyway, and the best Skill Focus you could have this side of Perception.
Honestly, I'd say a good option is to look at Wayang. They're small sized, and so are easily able to ride, and they have no STR penalty, so you can be a pretty competent lancer :) Can go from level 1! :) Not super optimized, but eh.
Also, all of the "halfbreed" races (Aasimar, Changelings, Ganzi, Geniekin, Skinwalkers, and Tieflings) can be small, while still retaining the race's standard traits. There are also small Androids and Shabti.
Honestly, I'd say a good option is to look at Wayang. They're small sized, and so are easily able to ride, and they have no STR penalty, so you can be a pretty competent lancer :) Can go from level 1! :) Not super optimized, but eh.Also, all of the "halfbreed" races (Aasimar, Changelings, Ganzi, Geniekin, Skinwalkers, and Tieflings) can be small, while still retaining the race's standard traits. There are also small Androids and Shabti.
OP mentioned Pathfinder Society, so this advice is unfortunately not an option for him as small-sized anything are not legal.
I apologize for the confusion caused by my response. I noticed my original response was not saved and I was in a rush for response. I stated how much the Wayang looked like Gremlins, hence the reason I said the "Gremlin Lancer" in my past post...
As I was saying, here was what i was thinking for my character maybe:
Gizmo Grimlynn (Male Wayang) Level 1 (Summoner 1)
Stats: (15 Point Buy)
15 STR [+2 Mod]
14 CON [+2 Mod]
12 DEX (+2) [+1 Mod]
12 INT (+2) [+1 Mod]
8 WIS (-2) [-1 Mod]
13 CHA [+1 Mod]Next time I gain stat points, I would increase STR and CHA.
PFS uses 20-point buy, so might I recommend these ability scores?
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 14
or
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
So after level 1, what would the approach be? Cavalier with the Order of the Chimera? Dragoon Fighter? What advice would be from there?
First of all, Order of the Chimera seems to be 3PP stuff, so that's not an option. Secondly, I advice against multiclassing: so many of your class features scale on your summoner level, including your spells and eidolon's attributes. 1 level dip at most.
Personally I would just go straight summoner and get those flying abilities as soon as possible, since your character idea involved a flying mount in the first place.
Muleback cords are not allowed on mounts in PFS.
PFS uses 20-point buy, so might I recommend these ability scores?
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 14
or
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
I need to learn more of the rules for PFS. I went with the in between so I could flex my build as needed, but if there is a 20 point buy, then I could be a little more liberal with my choices. I've made a few choices based on my racial pick:
Waywang - Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 14
Halfing - Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 7, Cha 14
Half-Elf - Str16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 14
Quadrapeds have higher carrying capacity. Medium is 1.5x (core rulebook pg 170).
So it's really 87/174/262.5
Also as an option, summoners get anthaul as a spell which triples carrying capacity for 2hrs per level.
I was looking at that actually, and was thinking of choosing between Anthaul or Enlarge Person, both would work on my Eidolon. Heck, I can KNOW both of them level 1, and cast them depending on which of the two is better at that time.
Additionally, I was planning on going Level 2-3 levels of Summoner so I can have a reliable cast of Enlarge/Anthauls to maintain my Summoned Mount than taking a 1 or 2 level dip. Comparing level 18 summoners and level 19 summoners, I'm only missing out on a few points for my Eidolon which can be more than made up for with mount benefits. Honestly, I thought Order of the Chimera was cannon, which was why I was willing to put 2-4 levels into my class (half those levels go into my Eidolon levels, which is all the Summoner is really focused on. I don't like the level 6 spells and not much else is gained outside of Summoner's Greater Aspect). The main problem I have is Eidolon Levels if I skip to many levels, which is why my limit is at 2.
@ Spider B8 // savokk
I'll go ahead and take the time to look at your characters, you seem to know what you're saying. I might not be going Paladin though, I was thinking of a Neutral or G.Neutral summoner who summons an elemental to ride into battle.
Speaking of which, does anyone know if the Reflavor rules would prevent me from having a Physical elemental?
Example, if I took a Fire Elemental Eidolon, did it have to be completely made of fire? Or can it be shelled living fire? Or maybe a living creature who is fire-like (like a Dragon thingy)? What are the restrictions for Elemental Eidolon and "Reskin rules"?
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I have a similiar character in PFS, Wayang Summoner x /Paladin 1. My goal was to make a PFS legal dragon rider with a lance. I remember having to make a small character and happened to have a wayang boon. I took a level of paladin with the oath of loyalty oathbound archtype.
I got bad news for you, friend. None of the Eidolons that are within one alignment step of Lawful Good can take the Mount evolution. Not even the ones that can take the Quadruped form.
Yes, it's silly that Eidolons are the only creature in the entire game that cannot be mounted thanks to existence of that damned evolution. I have two theories revolving around that: Either the Mount evolution involves the subtle Orwellian brainwashing of a proud sentient creature, or Eidolons naturally secrete butter through their pores and you would just fall off a lot. (Unchained was a wonderful opportunity to get rid of the evolution and clean up that rules singularity. Instead, it was made legal for.... Devils????)
@ Spider B8 // savokk
I'll go ahead and take the time to look at your characters, you seem to know what you're saying. I might not be going Paladin though, I was thinking of a Neutral or G.Neutral summoner who summons an elemental to ride into battle.
Speaking of which, does anyone know if the Reflavor rules would prevent me from having a Physical elemental?
Example, if I took a Fire Elemental Eidolon, did it have to be completely made of fire? Or can it be shelled living fire? Or maybe a living creature who is fire-like (like a Dragon thingy)? What are the restrictions for Elemental Eidolon and "Reskin rules"?
Remember, if this is PFS, your character will stop growth at level 12. There's a bit of Endgame content to take you to 13. Beyond very niche situations, that's where it stops. So every level counts. Speaking of, try not to dip more than 1 or 2 levels if you can help it. That Eidolon will already have some weaknesses (like Will save) on a pure Summoner, and dipping will tear it to shreds. Plus, your rad spell list is a huge boon to the character.
As far as I know, every Elemental is physical. You can ride it. It can hit things. It can be hit. It does not use any special rules for being translucent, nor is it difficult to interact with, and the Bestiary does not set precedent to the contrary. Take whichever you'd like. Build it however you want.
Air is a natural fit for what you want, what with the flight speed, but Fire's 20+ movespeed will translate into point-bought Flight evolution as well as its ground movement, so there's that.