what do you think OP? UP? SANS CR 20
XP 307,200
NG Medium Humanoid (obitu)
Init +40; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +30
DEFENSE
AC 50, touch 50, flat-footed N/A (+40 Dodge)
Hp 100
Fort +90, Ref +150, Will +150
Obitu traits, SR 33, DR 10/-, Improved Evasion, Dodge
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee slam +30 (1d10+10 plus Karmic Retribution)
Special Atks Bone Strike, Blue Strike, Gaster Blaster, Soul Slam, Karmic Retribution, Special attack
STATISTICS
Str 10, Dex 40, Con 8, Int 50, Wis 50, Cha 40
Base Atk +10; CMB +10; CMD 35
Feats Improved Initiative (9times), Triple-Jointed
Skills Perception +30, Perform (puns) +30, Bluff +30, Knowledge (arcana) +30, Knowledge (history) +30, Diplomacy +30, Intimidate +30, Acrobatics +30
Languages Common, Elven, Dwarvern, Gnome, Giant, Undercommon, Orc, Goblin, Gnoll, Comic Sans, Sans Serif, Papyrus, wingdings (wingdings), wingdings 2 (wingdings 2), wingdings 3 (wingdings 3), Draconic
ECOLOGY
Environment any
Organization solitary
Treasure none
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Bone Strike (EX): Sans can target a 5ft square within 60ft and causes sharp bone fragments to jut upwards forcing a Ref save DC=30 for no damage, being hit causes 1d4 damage per point you failed the save by as well as Karmic Retribution, once per round he may use this as an immediate action
Blue Strike (EX): Sans can target a 5ft square within 60ft and causes hazy ghostly blue bones to swipe upwards, this targets the base AC of everyone in that square (10 for most characters, no nat, arm, dodge, or dex mods) this will coat the target in a blue glow for one turn (as the Faerie fire spell) if the victim moves during the turn in which they glow they will take 1d4 damage plus Karmic Retribution
Gaster Blaster (EX): Sans can project a dragon-like head that fires a beam of pure energy this is a 5ft by 60ft line that deals 1d4 damage plus Karmic Retribution, he can project his Gaster Blaster in any square he can see within 30ft
Soul Slam (SU): Sans can use an effect similar to Reverse Gravity on one foe within 60ft the must make a Will save DC=20 if they fail they fall in the direction Sans directs them to, Sans often uses Bone Strike as they hit the ceiling
Karmic Retribution (EX): when suffering from Karmic Retribution you take your level times 4 as damage per round for 2 rounds
Special Attack (EX): Once per year Sans can use an effect very similar to the spell Time Stop, he usually uses this time to set up Bone Strikes under opponents that will hit without offering a save, this effect last for 1d6 rounds
Dodge (EX when an opponent attempts a melee attack against Sans, he can as an immediate action spend 1 panache point to move 5 feet; doing so grants Sans a dodge bonus to AC equal to his Charisma modifier (in this case +10) against the triggering attack. This movement doesn't negate the attack, which is still resolved as if Sans had not moved from the original square. This movement is not a 5-foot Step; it provokes attacks of opportunity from creatures other than the one who triggered this deed. Sans can only perform this deed while wearing light or no armor, and while carrying no heavier than a light load. For all intents and purposes Sans has Panache equal to CR
I like what you're going for here, and after reading everything I have a few suggestions.
Karmic Retribution: Sans's attacks all deal 1 damage, bypassing hardness, DR, and SR. If the attack targets AC, it deals additional damage equal to the difference between his attack roll and the target's AC. If the attack requires a save, it deals additional damage equal to the difference between his attack's DC and the enemy's saving throw result. The extra damage from this ability stacks with itself and persists for 1d3 rounds.
In the game, Sans's attacks dealt 1 true damage per frame of animation that you were in the hitbox, bypassing your armor. This meant the worse the player was at dodging his attacks the more damage they would deal, causing a positive feedback loop that forced you to learn his patterns and dodge in a manner that would cause you to get hit for as few frames as possible. This ability seeks to emulate that.
thanks for the advice, i like alot of your suggestions and will be working on him longer. i will have to basically rebuild him but it will be better in the long run. any other suggestions about soul slam or special attack
Before I talk about his other abilities I want to address the physical and mental stats. They seem very high, and most creatures don't get that many stats above 40. In fact, if you're a player you'll rarely see anything that high unless you're specifically using class features like Rage or Mutagen or you've got a template. If you end up building him as a creature I suggest using the Pathfinder Unchained monster-building system, but if you go with class levels then I suggest the following:
STR: 7
DEX: 16
CON: 7
INT: 18
WIS: 11
CHA: 15
Put all your level-ups into INT and buy a +6 Belt of Incredible Dexterity, a +6 Headband of Mental Superiority, +5 INT/CHA and +1 WIS from Wish (just to round out that odd stat). It's a very significant investment but he doesn't need too much to function as a full-caster. This gives him the following stats:
STR: 7
DEX: 22
CON: 7
INT: 34
WIS: 18
CHA: 26
This makes his spell DCs potent even before feats, 22+Spell Level. Any special abilities function off HD and either INT or CHA (I suggest CHA since monsters are made of magic and thus their ability to project their soul's energy is where their strength comes from).
As for Soul Slam, the biggest issue with this ability is the low DC - most enemies have ability DCs around 30 at this level. If you use the stats I gave and the formula most creature DCs are based on you end up with a DC 28 Reverse Gravity, which is pretty strong. If you need it to be higher just take Ability Focus - he is technically a "monster" after all :P
Special Attack's time-manipulation ability is something he spammed during the game, so making it 1/year is probably too restricted. This obviously taxes his stamina though, so here's what I suggest - give it to him as an SLA 3/day, but after each use give him a temporary debuff. Start off with Fatigued for a round or two after the first use, Exhausted after the second, and Exhausted + Sickened for the rest of the day after the third. This shows that this ability does do a number on him and he can't afford to abuse it often, but when he does he has to make sure he goes all-out or risk being significantly weakened. Note that this would reduce his STR to 1 while Exhausted - make sure he has a way to prevent ability damage / drain so he isn't a joke.
Thanks, I agree I was just trying to make him as accurate to the game as possible. I don't have access to unchained but I will work in your suggestions, I don't have much free time right now, school related stuff is using it but I should be able to build this soon
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Personally, if you want to make Sans, don't use the rules. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but just don't.
A lot of the charm of Sans and Undertale as a whole is based on bending the rules to change things up, so rather than play him as a straight encounter, make him a puzzle boss. Stats for this don't need to be given, he can't be hit by attacks, and most of all, find ways to damage or hinder your players for things they do as players, not as characters.
Sans breaks the 4th wall in the game from abusing time travel and hardcore interface screw like being able to damage you while you're selecting items and such, think of things your players do that you can incorporate in this style, like anytime a player takes longer than 5 seconds to do their turn, they take damage or start taking some kind of luck penalty.
Maybe something like where Sans can move out of turn, shift positions to alter who's attacking what, or other things like that. If you're doing a straight up fight, I don't feel like you're capturing the true spirit of the battle or what makes it fun. There should be some way to beat him that's non-standard, something like actually talking to the character out of character (player talking to Sans instead of character talking to Sans), something that splits the encounter from the normal routine into something that the players aren't used to and have to think around.
These are just ideas though, I'm not super certain how I'd do it myself.
N. Jolly hit it on the head. Sans wasn't hard because of his outrageous HP or other stats (the game said it: he's the easiest enemy); he was hard because the rules established in the game, or just about any turn-based combat system, are ignored and bypassed by him. Instead of damage boosting through a particularly tough segment, you take damage per frame. You take damage while navigating the interface. You automatically die if you spare him. I also encourage you to really think outside the box for this.
Just off the top of my head, make the only way to beat him is for one of the players to actually destroy the character sheet you made for him, or else just erase his HP on the sheet. After maybe 5 rounds, show the players the sheet for the first time, and leave it on the table in plain sight. Make it just a plain sheet of paper with "Sans" and "1 HP" written at the top in big obvious writing. Constantly encourage the players all the need to do is get rid of that 1 HP to win.
Personally, if you want to make Sans, don't use the rules. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but just don't.
A lot of the charm of Sans and Undertale as a whole is based on bending the rules to change things up, so rather than play him as a straight encounter, make him a puzzle boss. Stats for this don't need to be given, he can't be hit by attacks, and most of all, find ways to damage or hinder your players for things they do as players, not as characters.
Sans breaks the 4th wall in the game from abusing time travel and hardcore interface screw like being able to damage you while you're selecting items and such, think of things your players do that you can incorporate in this style, like anytime a player takes longer than 5 seconds to do their turn, they take damage or start taking some kind of luck penalty.
Maybe something like where Sans can move out of turn, shift positions to alter who's attacking what, or other things like that. If you're doing a straight up fight, I don't feel like you're capturing the true spirit of the battle or what makes it fun. There should be some way to beat him that's non-standard, something like actually talking to the character out of character (player talking to Sans instead of character talking to Sans), something that splits the encounter from the normal routine into something that the players aren't used to and have to think around.
These are just ideas though, I'm not super certain how I'd do it myself.
I do like the idea of having a more puzzle-themed Sans boss fight, but as you said, that'd be a bit hard to implement. He is aware of timelines and can abuse the rules and flat-out ignore them if he needs to, showing a strange understanding of the mechanics behind a fight. He should abuse any loopholes you can think of, from knowing exactly who goes when in initiative to completely fudging his own dice rolls. The problem isn't so much coming up with cool ways to break and bend the rules though, it's doing it in a manner that will entertain the players instead of just frustrating them. The game's all about having fun after all, and if he isn't fun to fight the encounter won't have its intended effect. The things Sans does in Undertale make for a challenging battle, sure, but they're mostly just ways to increase the difficulty to pain-inducing levels.
Actually if you design anything in a game without fun in mind you're doing it wrong, of course it's supposed to be fun. No need to be so confrontational about it, also I made this just to theorize about what I could do not to actually use, though if I did use it it would be purely for a fun and unique battle just like sans was in game
