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Another thread got me thinking about a Warpriest/Unchained Monk build and whether that could work out.
Here's what I've come up with so far. It's a work in progress.
Human Monk 1/Warpriest 10 of Moloch
Alignment LN
STR: 16 (+2 H, +1 8th) DEX: 14 CON: 12 INT: 10 WIS: 15 (+1 4th) CHA: 7
Traits: ???, Fate's Favored (+1 to all Luck Bonuses)
L1 UMonk 1: Power Attack, H) Phalanx Formation , B) Dodge, B) Stunning Fist, B) Improved Unarmed Strike, Flurry
L2 WP 1: B) EWP (Whip), B) Weapon Focus (Whip), Sacred Weapon (1d6), Law and War Blessings
L3 WP 2: Whip Mastery, Fervor
L4 WP 3: B) Combat Reflexes
L5 WP 4: Crusader’s Flurry, Channel Energy, Sacred Weapon +1
L6 WP 5: Fervor 2D6, Sacred Weapon (1d8)
L7 WP 6: Improved Whip Mastery, B) Weapon Specialization (Whip)
L8 WP 7: Sacred Armor +1
L9 WP 8: Lunge, Fervor 3D6, Sacred Weapon +2
L10 WP 9: B) Greater Weapon Focus (Whip)
L11 WP 10: Quicken Blessing (War), Major Blessings, Sacred Armor +2, Sacred Weapon (1d10)
So, I didn't want to make a trip build, but I thought the idea of Flurrying with a Whip was fun. I'm still working on his personality and why he's in the society. At the least, he'll likely be pretty intense.
A weakness is not being able to use armor. At Level 1, my AC would be 10+2DEX+2WIS+1Dodge=15. Much like a normal Monk, though, I'd carry a Wand of Mage Armor to hand off and some potions as a backup. So that boosts it to 19. At 4th, it goes to 20. Shield of Faith can help at lower levels, before I can afford a Ring of Protection and Amulet of Natural Armor. A Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier will eventually net me a +2 thanks to Fate's Favored. And there are tricks to be able to cast Shield a limited number of times. A Snakeskin Tunic or Ioun Stone for +2 DEX, Headband of Wisdom, and Monk's Robe would provide additional bonuses. So I feel like eventually I can get my AC above 30. Trickery Domain gives me a limited Mirror Image.
Offense is where this build is focused. I'd most likely start at level 2 thanks to GM credits, so I'd be able to power attack with a Whip from the start over an ally, though it would be non-lethal damage for 1 level. I'd have Unarmed Strike and Martial Weapons as a backup. At level 3, I'd be doing 1d6 lethal plus STR and Power Attack. If I understand the Whip correctly, while I can't get 1 1/2 STR when using two hands, I could still get 1 1/2 Power Attack.
5th level is when the build comes together. My Flurry with a Whip at 5th would look something like (Assuming +2 Str Belt and +1 Weapon):
To hit: +4BAB+5STR+1Magic+1Weapon Focus+2Divine Favor-2Power Attack = +11
Dmg: +5STR+1Magic+2Divine Favor+6Power Attack = +14
+11/+11 (1d6+14/1d6+14)
At 7th it would be:
+13/+13 (1d8+17/1d6+17)
I'd also threaten to 10 feet and be able to attack from 15 feet.
And at 11th (Assuming +4 Belt and +1 from Ioun Stone), it would be:
+20/+20/+15 (1d10+22, 1d10+22, 1d10+22)
War Blessing, when I have time to activate it, would give me another +1 to hit most rounds, or +2 to saves (+1 luck bonus + Fate's Favored).
Not amazing numbers, but good enough for PFS. Finding a way to cast Longarm would help the build. I'd also carry Potions of Enlarge Person.
Am I missing anything that would fit this build? Better feat choices? Is there a better option than Phalanx Formation? Is Lunge worth taking when I can already attack at 15 feet? Is there a Style chain that would work with Whip?
While a second level of Unchained Monk is tempting for another Bonus Feat (likely Combat Reflexes so I could take something else later) and Evasion, I'd lose the Major Blessings at 11th, the 1d10 damage, and 4th level spells.
Thoughts? I'd appreciate any advice.
Wand of mage armor and/or a pearl of power with a scroll of that go a long way.
Calistria won´t work i think, because she is chaotic and monks have to be lawful.
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I'll take another look at Selket. I'd stayed away for two reasons. One was so that I'd have the option of more Monk levels if I decide I do want to go that route later, and the other is because I don't have the AP that she appears in. But it could work out. I still get confused about how exactly the Scorpion Whip works now. It's not a reach weapon, unless you have both EWP Scorpion Whip and EWP Whip? Or something weird like that. And would I need Weapon Focus twice in order to get Sacred Weapon damage when using it like a Whip?
Half-Orc is mechanically a very strong choice for any Warpriest, because of Sacred Tattoo and Fate's Favored. I already used that combination on my PFS Brawler, so I'm hoping to go a different route just to keep things interesting. Fate;s Favored really is a must for the build, though.
And, yes, he'd be an Ex-Monk if I went with either Calistria or Selket. In fact, I'd written him up that way for Calistria. I forgot to take a couple of things out from that. Like I mention Trickery Blessing, but don't actually have it in the build anymore. I think I forgot to take out an attack of opportunity bonus one place from a trait I had to give up.
The more I think about it, the more not being able to self heal makes me think I'll end up going with Matravash. Not even being able to cast healing spells at all (they have the [good] descriptor) is a major hinderance. I've not made a Vudrani character yet, so that will add some uniqueness. I do need to pick up Distant Shores, but it's at least a more useful book in general to me than part of an AP.
Thoughts on a second trait? Right now I'm leaning toward Seeker (+1 Perception and it's a class skill), but between that and Fate's Favored, I feel like I'd be going with the uninteresting, default choices.
When I was looking at Calistria, I was thinking about a Cornugon Smash/Antagonize build. Half-Orc would help with that, but dumping Charisma definitely doesn't. Plus my Half-Orc Brawler is also an Enforcer/Intimidate build, so I'm again trying not to duplicate things too much.
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Not even being able to cast healing spells at all (they have the [good] descriptor) is a major hinderance.This isn't true, any alignment can cast heal spells.
All cure spells and heal are Conjuration (healing), they have no alignment descriptor at all.
Ah, you are correct. For some reason in my sleep deprived state last night, I'd convinced myself that was true. I could keep a couple of Cure spells prepared to use with Fervor, just in case. So Moloch is back on the table!
War is an excellent Blessing... Like a scaled down Blessing of Fervor.
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If you're going fates favored go half orc and take sacred tattoo. That will increase the +1 luck bonus from sacred tattoo to +2, and +2 to all saves us nice.
See my note in my post above. I'm considering it. I've used that trick before on another, active character, though, and I don't like to repeat myself too much. (That being said, this would be my 4th character with Fate's Favored. It's just that good).
Half orc can also gain access to whip proficiency with race traits and racial traits i think. Might solve a problem right there.
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If it weren't a Divine class that gets free proficiency in its Deity's favored weapon, the Half-Orc whip proficiency would be more exciting. But I'd be giving up the human bonus feat to get a proficiency. I'd also be giving up the Human skill point bonus, which for a 2 point/level class with a 10 Int is pretty nice to have. I can max Perception and Sense Motive and still have a point to throw into something else.
My being human and going with a deity that grants Whip, I'm able to have both Power Attack and Phalanx Formation at 1st level. If I went Half-Orc, I could choose a different deity, but I'd have to fit Phalanx Formation in somewhere later. I could swap Combat Reflexes for Doge as my Monk Bonus Feat, then take Phalanx Formation at 4th with my Warpriest Bonus Feat. I'd be down 1AC, though. So when I've got two decent options for a deity that do grant whip, getting it from Half-Orc isn't as attractive.
Now, the intimidate bonus and Sacred Tattoo are both definite pluses for Half-Orc.
I'm considering Dual Talent Human, too. I'd lose Dodge and the bonus skill point again, but make up for it with +2 to Wisdom, which gets back the lost point of AC, plus an extra point of Fervor and extra uses of Blessings. At one point I was dumping Int to 7 instead of Cha, so the bonus skill point from Human was very important to keep me at 2 ranks.
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Actually...Half-Orcs can trade Darkvision for the Skilled Racial Trait (it's in the ARG).
All you lose is the bonus Feat. And even there, you can get Endurance with shaman's Apprentice (or just keep the Intimidate bonus). Not a great Feat, but trading the Human bonus Feat for Whip Proficiency, +2 to Knowledge Local, Endurance (or +2 Intimidate), and Sacred Tattoo is a good trade.
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I'd forgotten Half-Orc could pick up Skilled. I think because ordinarily I'd never trade Darkvision out. Usually I'm looking for ways to pick it up. But that does add some flexibility to the build.
The main advantage of being able to choose another deity is to be able to take the Destruction Blessing. Ok, it just clicked why I have to take a deity that grants Whip as their favored weapon. Crusader's Flurry only works with the deity's favored weapon. That feat is where this build started. So I'm definitely taking a deity that grants Whip, which means picking up Whip from Half-Orc wouldn't be a benefit. I'd actually look into what else I could swap the proficiencies out for. Like Fey Thoughts (if that's PFS legal), which would give me Perception and UMD as class skills. Now we're talking about something that might make sense.
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Ok, I've been thinking about this some more, and here's where I am. Staying Human for now to see what the extra feat gets me, but I'm strongly considering Half-Orc for all the reasons that have been mentioned.
Human (Vudrani) Monk 2/Warpriest 9 of Matravash
Alignment LN
STR: 16 (+2 H, +1 8th) DEX: 13 (+1 4th) CON: 14 INT: 7 WIS: 16 CHA: 7
HP: 86 (97 with +2 CON item)
Traits: Magical Knack (Warpriest), Fate's Favored (+1 to all Luck Bonuses)
Favored Class Bonuses go to +1/6 Bonus Feat for first 6 WP levels.
L1 UMonk 1: Power Attack, H) Phalanx Formation , B) Dodge, B) Stunning Fist, B) Improved Unarmed Strike, Flurry
L2 WP 1: B) EWP (Whip), B) Weapon Focus (Whip), Sacred Weapon (1d6), Law and Travel Blessings
L3 WP 2: Whip Mastery, Fervor
L4 UM 2: B) Combat Reflexes, Evasion
L5 WP 3: Iron Will (Retrain at 6th to Crusader's Flurry), B) Martial Focus (Flails - Includes Whip)
L6 WP 4: Channel Energy, Sacred Weapon +1
L7 WP 5: Improved Whip Mastery, Fervor 2D6, Sacred Weapon (1d8)
L8 WP 6: B) Weapon Specialization (Whip), FCB) Difficult Swings
L9 WP 7: Lunge, Sacred Armor +1
L10 WP 8: Fervor 3D6, Sacred Weapon +2
L11 WP 9: Divine Interference, B) Greater Weapon Focus (Whip)
I've never dumped 2 stats to 7 before, though on my last Monk I took an 8 Int and 9 Cha (dumped to 7, Nagaji racial bonus made it a 9). Skilled becomes very important to this build. The second level of Monk gives me an extra skill point, but I'm still probably only looking at being to max 1 skill, assuming I spread the second point around to a few different ones.
So I'd be trading casting 4th level spells and using major blessings for 1 level at the end of my PFS career for an extra BAB. That allows me to pick up Martial Focus (+1 Damage and qualify as having Weapon Training) and Difficult Swings (Whenever I full attack with the Whip, I can make enemies treat squares adjacent to me as difficult terrain. No save).
I'm a bit at a loss for a better level 11 feat. Divine Interference is great, but I like it more on a spontaneous caster that wouldn't have to give up specific spells and could use a higher level slot to cast a lower level spell if needed. My Divine Favor castings are important. :)
Without the War Blessing, I don't mind not getting Quicken Blessing at 11. The Travel Major Blessing is great, but I'd only be able to use it for 1 level in regular PFS. I'd rather pick something up earlier that I can use for several levels.
With Magical Knack, Divine Favor would get a boost at character level 6, the same time I pick up Crusader's Flurry (one level later than the previous build).
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True as well. I suppose I'll figure something out before I get that far. With the quality of the Player Companions lately, some new feat is bound to come up that I'll like.
Any thoughts on the rest of the build? The Weapon Master's Handbook proved to be very useful. I think Difficult Swings will be great for this build. Basically forcing any creature without reach to provoke in order to get close enough to attack me.
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I agree to some extent, which is why I only had 1 level in the first build. Right now, though, the 2nd level of UM is what's making it possible to take Martial Focus with the 3rd level Warpriest Bonus Feat. Martial Focus requires BAB +5. If I only take 1 level of UM, then my effective BAB when I get the bonus feat would only be +4. I wouldn't have an actual +5 BAB until 7th level. So it would push everything else until later. So many of the feats I've taken now require BAB +5 or +6, and Weapon Specialization requires Fighter 4, so it can't be taken with the bonus feat at 3rd level.
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I did, but the Archetype trades out Channel to get Weapon Training. Normally, I wouldn't care about that on a Warpriest, but I need Channel to be able to take Crusader's Flurry, which was the original inspiration for the build.
I could take Combat Reflexes as my level 1 Monk bonus feat, then take a level of Fighter at 4th and take something other than Dodge with the Fighter bonus feat. That would let me take Weapon Specialization at 5th with my WP bonus feat and Martial Focus at 8th with the level 9 bonus feat. That would just mean an extra +1 to damage 3 levels early. For the cost of Evasion.
Actually, that might be the way to make Half-Orc work. I'd lose the human bonus feat, but I could take Phalanx Formation as the Fighter Bonus feat at 4th level. So ultimately I'd only be losing Dodge, which isn't a big deal. And if be picking up +2 to all my saves, which is the equivalent of 3 feats.
That could work. Now, if I can find a fighter Archetype that's got something else good at level 1, that would be great.
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Another direction to go would be to take a level of Brawler. It would still count as Fighter to let me take Weapon Specialization with my 3rd level Warpriest Bonus Feat (at 5th level overall). It would get me Martial Flexibility 4/day instead of a bonus feat (essentially in place of Dodge). Brawler has the added benefit over Fighter of being a 4+Int Skill Point class and having Perception on its Class Skill list. And as a minor boost, the Brawler level would net me another use of Stunning Fist.
Martial Flexibility means if I get stuck in a situation where I need Phalanx Formation, I can just pick it up, so it's not the worst thing if I switch to Half-Orc and don't get the human bonus feat.
Between Fighter and Brawler, I think I'm leaning toward Brawler. I could even go Exemplar just to get something (anything) in place of the duplicate Improved Unarmed Strike.
So, one last look at the build, this time as a Half-Orc.
Alignment LN
STR: 16 (+2 H, +1 8th) DEX: 13 (+1 4th) CON: 14 INT: 7 WIS: 16 CHA: 7
HP: 97 (Assume +2 CON item)
Saves: FORT +15 REF +12 WILL +11 (Assume +2 DEX, +2 CON, and +2 WIS Items, not counting a Resistance Bonus yet) +2 vs Emotion and Fear effects
Traits: Magical Knack (Warpriest), Fate's Favored (+1 to all Luck Bonuses)
Racial Traits: Sacred Tattoo (+1 Luck bonus to saves, +2 with Fate's Favored), Skilled (+1 skill rank/level), Pariah (+2 saves vs Emotion and Fear, -2 Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive), Shaman's Apprentice (Endurance Bonus Feat)
Favored Class Bonuses go to +1/6 Bonus Feat for first 6 WP levels.
L1 UMonk 1: Power Attack, B) Combat Reflexes, B) Stunning Fist, B) Improved Unarmed Strike, B) Endurance, Flurry of Blows
L2 WP 1: B) EWP (Whip), B) Weapon Focus (Whip), Sacred Weapon (1d6), Law and Travel Blessings
L3 WP 2: Whip Mastery, Fervor
L4 Brawler (Exemplar) 1: Martial Flexibility, Brawler's Cunning, Martial Training, Call to Arms
L5 WP 3: Iron Will (Retrain at 6th to Crusader's Flurry), B) Weapon Specialization (Whip)
L6 WP 4: Channel Energy, Sacred Weapon +1
L7 WP 5: Improved Whip Mastery, Fervor 2D6, Sacred Weapon (1d8)
L8 WP 6: B) Martial Focus (Flails - Includes Whip), FCB) Difficult Swings
L9 WP 7: Lunge, Sacred Armor +1
L10 WP 8: Fervor 3D6, Sacred Weapon +2
L11 WP 9: Improved Critical (Whip), B) Greater Weapon Focus (Whip)
Attack = +8BAB+6STR+1Magic+1WF+1GWF+1Ioun+4DF-3PA=+19
Damage = +6STR+1Magic+2WSpec+1MFocus+4DF+9PA=+23
Flurry with Whip +19 (1d8+23 19-20/x2), +19 (1d8+23 19-20/x2), +14 (1d8+23 19-20/x2)
I feel like I'm missing a _1 to hit somewhere, or I did my math wrong before. Maybe I was counting the War Blessing in, and that's why it was 1 higher.
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Necroing my own thread...
Talk about a build taking forever to come online... My Cursader's Flurry whip build is 1 scenario away from 7th level and the Difficult Swings feat, which has been the goal of the build since I realized the feat existed. My first game actually played for the character was August 2016, but this thread goes back to Feb 2016. Unless I play him online again before I'm scheduled to play him live in early Feb 2019, it'll be three years from concept to realization of the build. That's... a long time. His feats past Difficult Swings are all basically damage or accuracy boosters. I'm wondering if there's anything more interesting that's come out in the meantime.
Also, I did a last minute switch with the 1st level rebuild to make him DEX-based, since I realized you can't two-hand a whip for extra damage. Here's the current build. He's 6th level, 1 XP from 7th.
LN Human (Vudran) Unchained Monk 1 / Warpriest 9 / Lore Warden 1
Worships Matravash
STR 11 (+1 8th) DEX 20 (17 +2racial, +1 4th) CON 14 INT 7 WIS 16 CHA 7
Doesn't include items. Currently have +2 belt of DEX and +2 headband of WIS for 22 and 18 respectively
Favored Class Bonus for WP levels 3-8 goes to 1/6 Bonus Feat
L1 UMonk 1: Weapon Finesse, B) Combat Reflexes, B) Stunning Fist, B) Improved Unarmed Strike, H) Phalanx Formation, Flurry of Blows
L2 WP 1: B) EWP (Whip), B) Weapon Focus (Whip), Sacred Weapon (1d6), Community and Travel Blessings
L3 WP 2: Whip Mastery, Fervor
L4 WP 3: B) Slashing Grace->Improved Whip Mastery (6th)
L5 WP 4: Crusader's Flurry, Channel Energy, Sacred Weapon +1
L6 LW 1: B) Martial Focus (Flails-Includes Whip), Knowledge Skills as Class Skills
Remaining levels:
L7 WP 5: Difficult Swings, Fervor 2D6, Sacred Weapon (1d8)
L8 WP 6: B) Weapon Specialization (Whip)
L9 WP 7: Lunge, Sacred Armor +1
L10 WP 8: FCB) Greater Weapon Focus (Whip), Fervor 3D6, Sacred Weapon +2
L11 WP 9: Improved Critical (Whip), B) Power Attack
Tratis: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack
The STR bump at 8th is so that I can eventually buy an ioun stone for +2 STR and take Power Attack at 11th, but that's a lot to go through just to take that feat. So what have I missed? what new stuff has come out in the last 3 years that would work with this build?
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Longspear would have been much easier to build on, for sure. But I've done the normal reach weapon build. I doubt this is even close to the optimal whip build. I just wanted to combine whip and Crusader's Flurry and see where that lead me.
For a Warpriest, Difficult Swings wouldn't come online any quicker with a longspear, since you need BAB +5 for Martial Focus and Difficult Swings. Advantages longspear has over this are that it's a simple weapon, it saves three feats (weapon finesse, whip mastery, improved whip mastery), it would deal more damage until Warpriest level 5, when the whip is also d8, it's a x3 weapon, and you could do a strength build to use two-handing and power attack.
Advantages whip has are 5' more reach when attacking (not threatening), it can be finessed, and some minor benefit from other whip related feats that could potentially be taken (but that I probably won't). I could have gone strength-based instead of finesse, which would have been easier even with a whip. My AC ends up a little better this way.
At any rate, I got a fun deity/backstory out of it, and it ended up a pretty effective character. I deal enough damage, even without power attack/two-handing, and flurrying from the back of the party without needing to enlarge is fun. So I'm happy with the direction I went.