"Double Dragon" Build Idea

[hiiamtom]

So the idea is making one character controlling two powerful draconic forms at once via Form of the Dragon and getting some really solid combat ability beyond the cool factor.

The basic chassis would be Fighter 4/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10 with the fighter taking natural weapons for weapon training and focus on transmutation as a wizard to eventually get to the actual concept by level 16 - same time as athe Magus. Obviously before then you enjoy several lesser forms - but eye on the titular prize. It also means that you can choose some neat tricks with Advance weapon Training through feats.

So you take STR>CON=DEX>INT=WIS>>>>CHA for something like 16/14/14/12/12/7 before racial choice with the idea that your spellcasting relies on spells without a DC and on mental stat boosting items to get to those 8th level spells.

So that's one dragon, the capstone essentially the Form of the Dragon III casting at level 19 for a fun, big, splashy effect in battle. But what about the other dragon?

For that we look at nature soul-> animal ally-> boon companion to get our second dragon by sharing the spell. Let's look at our best choices:

Camel (str 20) gets the job done even as a base form with multiattack. I personally love this companion and have fond memories with it.

Wolf (str 21) probably the obvious choice for 90% of campaigns. Good bite, the bite trips, it's a solid choice.

Small cat (str 16) wait... this is obviously a weaker choice, why this over something like a horse? It's because it is medium sized. The large companions above take -4 str when they polymorph so small cat at 16 STR has the same strength when polymorphed as a 20 str large creature. Magic!

The main issue is that there is no point in doing this at a character less than level 9, but if you want to make a silly fighter for a high level campaign (maybe you died in book 3?) this would be something fun to play with.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

You could do a Draconic Sorcerer 12/Dragon Disciple 8 who takes Eldritch Heritage Feat for Arcane to pick up a familiar.

The Familiar Can take the Mauler Archetype (no need for improved familiar...more feats to your main dragon.) Protector Archetype could work as well...Making 1 Dragon more offensive and the other more of a body guard type of dragon.

There ya go....Double Dragons.

You could also do it on a summoner who makes a staff of Form of the Dragon 1 and a Summoner spells so you can recharge it daily. Its expensive but the build your giving doesn't get FotD till way late anyways. Both the Above methods might even be FASTER to get the concept up and running.

[hiiamtom]

A familiar would be strongest, a Compsognathus with a human (eye for talent) would be 8+2+9+4=23 before polymorphing vs 22... but the CON boost doesn't raise its HP and I don't know a good way to boost that.

By my count level 16 is the magic number :)

Sorc 5/DD 10 with eldritch heritage or wildblooded. All 2/3 casters get their Form of the Dragon I at 16, but can't cast Form of the Dragon III for maximum majesty.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

hiiamtom wrote:

A familiar would be strongest, a Compsognathus with a human (eye for talent) would be 8+2+9+4=23 before polymorphing vs 22... but the CON boost doesn't raise its HP and I don't know a good way to boost that.

By my count level 16 is the magic number :)

Sorc 5/DD 10 with eldritch heritage or wildblooded. All 2/3 casters get their Form of the Dragon I at 16, but can't cast Form of the Dragon III for maximum majesty.

First anything beyond 8 Levels in DD is considered a Bad move. The last 2 levels are pretty bad.

Second The Eye for talent + Mauler Route is a nice way to go. But to boost a Familiars HP you need to boost the MASTERS hp. Dragon DIsciple d12 HD helps, Taking toughness Helps, Taking Fast Learner boosts it a bit more. The Dragon Disciple Boost to Con Helps. As well as Grabbing up a Belt that Boosts Con and STR. It can have a respectable HP and if you give it Layered defenses like Mirror Image, Stone-skin Communal ect ect.

The familiar is not a bad option at all.

[hiiamtom]

Why not both?

Familiar from bloodline/heritage (you only really need the one feat), and then an animal companion.

Triple dragons

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

hiiamtom wrote:

Why not both?

Familiar from bloodline/heritage (you only really need the one feat), and then an animal companion.

Triple dragons

I guess you could but that is like a 5 feat investment. But if your willing to invest...why the hell not. Make the AC the Offensive one and the Familiar the Protector type and you can be the caster type. Lots and Lots of Pain. Take the spell Marionette possession you can turn an Ally into a dragon too for 4x dragons. Or you could just go Brown Fur transmuter and Pass it out to everyone in the group plus your familiar and self. Would have crazy amount of dragons.

[Dave Justus]

I would go with and Eldritch Guardian and Rhamphorhynchus Mauler familiar for my 'dragon' familiar. At level one it is already pretty dragonlike and a not bad combatant.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

Dave Justus wrote:

I would go with and Eldritch Guardian and Rhamphorhynchus Mauler familiar for my 'dragon' familiar. At level one it is already pretty dragonlike and a not bad combatant.

I always forget about that fighter Archetype. Maybe the Fighter 2/Wizard/Eldritch Knight 10 might not be too bad. Only a loss of 3 CL instead of 5. Makes large difference and get to keep the familiar at full HD. No need for Boon companion (unless the OP wants the Animal Companion too). But he could then take Combat feats to feed to the familiar in place of the 3 feat chain to get an animal companion.

[hiiamtom]

I originally started toying with this to see if I can hit weapon training and then use feats for advance weapon training.

All my previous EKs have been archers (fighter/wizard/EK/Arcane Archer mixes), but I really want to get a combat focused transmuter going.

[nate lange]

Personally I'd go straight wizard... Transformation isn't a polymorph effect so you can stack it with the form of the dragon spells... This is saves you from losing any caster levels so you can transform earlier.

[hiiamtom]

Well, yeah. I'm obviously not trying to optimize here or exploit the system, I'm just having fun.

In terms of optimization it is universally better to not drop spell levels with an arcane class. Divine classes are much more resistant to it.

I've played an arcanist using animal ally and a familiar like this, but it's sort of like any other caster sitting back and letting the others do the work instead of truly being a front line fighting man.

Obviously this is what I should be doing.

[pulseoptional]

i was picturing something closer to Ashton from Star Ocean: Second Story when i saw this post originally. is there a way to meld 2 dragons to yourself and have them still semi autonomous? or is this something i should be taking to another thread?

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Quote:

Compsognathus with a human (eye for talent) would be 8+2+9+4=23

The new Flying Fox is 1 STR higher, and can fly when it's not polymorphed. You get a +2 Fort save instead of +4 initiative, which isn't a horrible exchange.