In one of my games I have an order of healers which I plan to give them a magic item. I am just wondering what you all thought on the balance of the item and suggested pricing guides.
Caduceus
This +1 winged staff gives a +5 bonus on heal checks and is counted as a healers kit for all heal checks. In addition while using the staff all heal checks are reduce to 1 action.
Constant deathwatch
Charges
Cure Critical Wounds 4 charges
Remove Curse 4 charges
Lesser Restoration 2 charges
From my break down I got
Skill = (5*500) = 500
+1 weapon = 2300
Deathwatch(1*1*2000*1.5)= 3000
Staff (3200+2400+1600) = 7200
So that totals out to 10,300. I am thinking that for the other properties I would just round it up to 11k. The order is populated by mostly non-magic users so they rely on the staffs to heal the sick and wounded. If the staff runs out of charges they must make a pilgrimage to the capitol where a team of clerics will recharge the staff for them.
There often are adjustments made for multiple powers on an item. From what I recall, that doesn't usually apply to magic staffs that are also weapons, but the deathwatch might be an issue. It isn't a super powerful spell though and I think your round up would cover that quite fairly.
The biggest question in my mind is all heal checks being reduced to one action. I don't think I would include it, since it is either unnecessary or problematic (how does long term care work for example). If it does something cool, it should probably cost. I don't know that I would have it count as a healers kit either, but that is just flavor I don't really like, your wandering healers seem cooler to me if they carry a kit as well, and the staff helps them use it better. The price on that is pretty negligible so that doesn't really effect balance.
One thing to remember is that if the users of the staff aren't spell casters they have to make a DC 20 UMD check to activate the staff. It might make sense to have them be low level cleric or adepts.
There often are adjustments made for multiple powers on an item. From what I recall, that doesn't usually apply to magic staffs that are also weapons, but the deathwatch might be an issue. It isn't a super powerful spell though and I think your round up would cover that quite fairly.
The biggest question in my mind is all heal checks being reduced to one action. I don't think I would include it, since it is either unnecessary or problematic (how does long term care work for example). If it does something cool, it should probably cost. I don't know that I would have it count as a healers kit either, but that is just flavor I don't really like, your wandering healers seem cooler to me if they carry a kit as well, and the staff helps them use it better. The price on that is pretty negligible so that doesn't really effect balance.
One thing to remember is that if the users of the staff aren't spell casters they have to make a DC 20 UMD check to activate the staff. It might make sense to have them be low level cleric or adepts.
Hum perhaps it would just be for the poison/caltrops/etc. I didn't really think about long term care which takes up the 8 hours. So I think I might change it to say that Treat Deadly Wounds always adds your Wis mod.
I think I will have to change them to level 3 or 4 adepts then. Maybe get rid of the familiar and replace it with a faintly glowing aura which lets people know they are healers who are duty bound to help.
I think without too much issue the staff could count as a their holy symbol as well.
I would think that carrying the staff would be sufficient to let people recognize them. If you really don't like the familiar you could just ignore it, trade it out for the staff working like a wizard's bonded object for them, or simply replace it with a totally different power. The witches healing hex might be interesting, although that might be more healing then you want them to have.
Basically this would be making a custom archetype for the Adept, which is perfectly fine to do.
Using it as a holy symbol as well makes perfect sense.
I would think that carrying the staff would be sufficient to let people recognize them. If you really don't like the familiar you could just ignore it, trade it out for the staff working like a wizard's bonded object for them, or simply replace it with a totally different power. The witches healing hex might be interesting, although that might be more healing then you want them to have.
Basically this would be making a custom archetype for the Adept, which is perfectly fine to do.
Using it as a holy symbol as well makes perfect sense.
Good idea, I'll change it out for the bonded object. Thanks.
Finishing it off I think I got a good final product.
Caduceus
Aura moderate conjuration (healing); CL 8
Slot none; Price 11,000; Weight 5
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Description
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This +1 winged staff counts as a holy symbol and gives a +5 bonus on heal checks. When doing a heal check to treat deadly wounds you always add your wisdom modifier to the damage healed.
Constant: deathwatch
Cure Critical Wounds (4 charges)
Remove Curse (4 charges)
Lesser Restoration (3 charges)
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Construction
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Requirements Craft Staff, Craft Wonderous Items, Craft Arms and Armor, Cure Critical Wounds, Remove Curse, Lesser Restoration, Deathwatch, Crafter must have 5 ranks in heal; Cost 5,500
It sounds like you have a good solution in hand, but as for the original pricing question, some... adjustments are needed:
From my break down I got
Skill = (5*500) = 500
+1 weapon = 2300
Deathwatch(1*1*2000*1.5)= 3000
Staff (3200+2400+1600) = 7200
So that totals out to 10,300...
The numbers listed total 13000, and the math adds to 15000 (5*500 = 2500).
However:
Skill = (5*5*100) = 2500 (* 2 for non-slot item = 5000)
Counts as a Healer's Kit = 50 * 100 (unlimited use material components count as 100_ = 5000
+1 weapon = 2300 (fine)
Deathwatch(1*1*2000*1.5)= 3000 (* 2 for non-slot item = 6000)
Staff (3200+2400+1600) = 7200 (Price is 800 * CL * SL / Charges for the highest, 600 * ... for the 2nd, 400 *... for the rest so should be 6400+3600+3200 = 13200)
Total: 31500gp
That said, I think the non-weapon, non-staff effects can *definitely* knock 30% off for similar effects, for 26700gp Final Price.
It sounds like you have a good solution in hand, but as for the original pricing question, some... adjustments are needed:
From my break down I got
Skill = (5*500) = 500
+1 weapon = 2300
Deathwatch(1*1*2000*1.5)= 3000
Staff (3200+2400+1600) = 7200
So that totals out to 10,300...The numbers listed total 13000, and the math adds to 15000 (5*500 = 2500).
However:
Skill = (5*5*100) = 2500 (* 2 for non-slot item = 5000)
Counts as a Healer's Kit = 50 * 100 (unlimited use material components count as 100_ = 5000
+1 weapon = 2300 (fine)
Deathwatch(1*1*2000*1.5)= 3000 (* 2 for non-slot item = 6000)
Staff (3200+2400+1600) = 7200 (Price is 800 * CL * SL / Charges for the highest, 600 * ... for the 2nd, 400 *... for the rest so should be 6400+3600+3200 = 13200)
Total: 31500gpThat said, I think the non-weapon, non-staff effects can *definitely* knock 30% off for similar effects, for 26700gp Final Price.
Thank you!
I am taking out the healers kit option. I also didn't take out the 300 for masterwork before diving the value by 2. I did that for the new stat block.As for the magic staff. Re-reading, it says cost to create, so then the market cost would be doubled. However, I re-did your math and it looks like you put lesser restoration as a third level spell instead of a second level spell.
(800*8*4)/4= 6400
(600*8*3)/4= 3600
(400*8*2)/3= 2133
6400+3600+2133 = 12,133
New item description.
Caduceus
Aura moderate conjuration (healing); CL 8
Slot none; Price 25,433; Weight 5
------------------------
Description
------------------------
This +1 winged staff counts as a holy symbol and gives a +5 bonus on heal checks. When doing a heal check to treat deadly wounds you always add your wisdom modifier to the damage healed.
Constant: deathwatch
Cure Critical Wounds (4 charges)
Remove Curse (4 charges)
Lesser Restoration (3 charges)
------------------------
Construction
------------------------
Requirements Craft Staff, Craft Wonderous Items, Craft Arms and Armor, Cure Critical Wounds, Remove Curse, Lesser Restoration, Deathwatch, Crafter must have 5 ranks in heal; Cost 12,866.5
Actually I should restrict it to people with the heal skill.
Caduceus
Aura moderate conjuration (healing); CL 8
Slot none; Price 22,919.7; Weight 5
------------------------
Description
------------------------
This +1 winged staff counts as a holy symbol and gives a +5 bonus on heal checks. When doing a heal check to treat deadly wounds you always add your wisdom modifier to the damage healed.
Constant: deathwatch
Cure Critical Wounds (4 charges)
Remove Curse (4 charges)
Lesser Restoration (3 charges)
This item can only be used if you have ranks in heal.
------------------------
Construction
------------------------
Requirements Craft Staff, Craft Wonderous Items, Craft Arms and Armor, Cure Critical Wounds, Remove Curse, Lesser Restoration, Deathwatch, Crafter must have 5 ranks in heal; Cost 11,609.85
Your original post had Lesser Restoration at 2 charges instead of 3 - your new calculations are correct. However restricting an item that gives a bonus to Heal checks to people with at least one rank in heal would not merit a price cut, especially not an additional price cut. But I may be mistaking your meaning.
This is a really great item for Bards, who can get get Cure Crit and charge it (though only at 10th level) and often could use a nice bonus to Heal. Also for Druids who can charge it at 7th level, before they get Cure Critical, and often have too many skills for their skill points and just dot into Heal.
Honestly, I think this would be better as a Rod, which each spell useable once per week.
[Edits in progress...]
Majuba, I was looking at the rule that states you can take 10% off the crafting cost if you restrict the magic item to people who have a certain skill.
Are you going to make this item available to the PCs?
If no, then what's it matter how much it costs or if it's balanced?
)
Counts as a Healer's Kit = 50 * 100 (unlimited use material components count as 100_ = 5000
This doesn't seem appropriate as a healers kit isn't used up like a component. A flat 50 would be sufficient, probably could just be ignored to be honest.