Game breaking Thrall heard question. Is this legal by rules?


Rules Questions


At level 6 my Telepath became a Thrall Heard.

I gained 1 level 5 cohort.
1 level 4
1 level 3
3 level 2s
And 35 level 1s
(Leadership score 18)

Assuming they are mind compelled slaves/followers/believers I am assuming I can do as I wish with their wealth? (Using the wealth by character level chart)

If so this seems to be an imbalance of the wbcl chat for my character as I calculate my loot to be over 42,000 not to mention if I get them killed my numbers replenish in 24 hours...

Your thoughts community?

Added note: I am the most experienced player in my group (I own all the books and let them borrow them and still help most everyone with their characters) so the party lets me get away with murder but I don't want to be that guy... I am just curious if this is actually valid/allowed not necessarily a question of fairness as I've already decided to re-roll to a harder to play Soulbolt archetype prestige into elocater (just for kicks).


Well, there's been some debate on whether your cohorts and followers gain any wealth by level *at all*, or whether their equipment has to be paid out of your pocket since they're considered part of your character.

Either way, Psionics aren't actually Paizo rules, so this question would belong in the Third Party Products forum area.


Thanks for the clarification on the forum. Is there a way for a moderator to move this? I'm still new to these boards and there are so many sub forums to navigate I'm afraid I'll just put it in the wrong place again.

Added note, it's sad that paizo didn't want to embrace psionics especially as they were official 3.5 books. I much prefer the power point system vs spells per day.


KingDrache64 wrote:

At level 6 my Telepath became a Thrall Heard.

I gained 1 level 5 cohort.
1 level 4
1 level 3
3 level 2s
And 35 level 1s
(Leadership score 18)

Assuming they are mind compelled slaves/followers/believers I am assuming I can do as I wish with their wealth? (Using the wealth by character level chart)

If so this seems to be an imbalance of the wbcl chat for my character as I calculate my loot to be over 42,000 not to mention if I get them killed my numbers replenish in 24 hours...

Your thoughts community?

Added note: I am the most experienced player in my group (I own all the books and let them borrow them and still help most everyone with their characters) so the party lets me get away with murder but I don't want to be that guy... I am just curious if this is actually valid/allowed not necessarily a question of fairness as I've already decided to re-roll to a harder to play Soulbolt archetype prestige into elocater (just for kicks).

"Those who answer a thrallherd’s call are not referred to as cohorts and followers, but rather as thralls and believers, respectively. They do not appear because they admire the character and want to serve her, but because a hidden psychic resonance connects the thrallherd and her servants."

"A thrallherd establishes a resonance with his thrall and suffers if the thrall is killed. For 48 hours following the loss of a thrall, a thrallherd suffers one negative level. This negative level may not be healed by any means until 48 hours have passed since the thrall’s death, at which point it fades naturally. Should the thrallherd’s new thrall die while the thrallherd is still suffering a negative level, he acquires an additional negative level, and the duration of any negative levels gained through losing a thrall resets to 48 hours from the time the most recent thrall was lost."

Also not to mention
"This score is not affected by any of the modifiers mentioned in the Leadership feat."

So how do you have a leadership score of 18?
"A thrallherd’s Leadership score is equal to her character level + her Charisma modifier + her thrallherd level.

Lv6 + Cha score + thrallherd level = 7 + x = 18

you have a charisma modifier of 11?

So, say hypothetically you can get all these thralls.
Their total net value is 14,710GP in gear.
( The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level (see Creating NPCs).

That includes their weapons, protection, limited use items, and the gear on their back.

You strip them down of everything, and HOORAY, you send them to their deaths and you lose levels.


Yes my Cha is 30. That's another story. Lol. But ignore that.

And regardless of negative levels we have long moments where our characters simply live between missions, working professions etc. If legal my character would do this in a few week time span between missions.

Again, this is a jerk move in my opinion and highly evil. And definitely game breaking. That's why I'm choosing a new character. (I plan on this thrall herd guy being an NPC for an evil king later on) but the core question here is "is this legal by game terminology alone?"

For all the reasons and quotations you posted (which THANK YOU BTW for going to such effort, you're awesome!) I'm thinking it is legal.


Added note: you have 1 thrall, and the rest are believers. So the negative level terminology only applies to my one main thrall who I actually don't kill.

P.s.
Truth be told I payed for mind switch true to be cast on my First thrall who was a barbarian so my character would have awesome mental and physical stats... I know I'm a monster...


KingDrache64 wrote:

Yes my Cha is 30. That's another story. Lol. But ignore that.

And regardless of negative levels we have long moments where our characters simply live between missions, working professions etc. If legal my character would do this in a few week time span between missions.

Again, this is a jerk move in my opinion and highly evil. And definitely game breaking. That's why I'm choosing a new character. (I plan on this thrall herd guy being an NPC for an evil king later on) but the core question here is "is this legal by game terminology alone?"

For all the reasons and quotations you posted (which THANK YOU BTW for going to such effort, you're awesome!) I'm thinking it is legal.

Alright, well you are asking if something is legal, because of the idea that it can be exploited at lv6. Which is a more than reasonable request, and then you say you have a charisma score of 30.

Because of this, it really isn't much of a concern to be addressed.

Also as I have stated before, if you strip down all your characters, and 6 of your 35 lv1 NPC thralls die, then you die.
The negative levels stack, and having your cohorts roam the world without any of the provisions they have effectively heightens the chance of them dying.

I hope your GM is a merciful GM. If he doesnt care that you are killing a lv5 NPC every other week to loot his corpse, then thats on him for gamebalcing issues, not on the class itself.

Edit: I guess it only applies to your current thrall at hand in the case of negative levels.

however, leading people to death might strike the proper authorities to investigate the mysterious remnants of naked followers.


The "thralls" or whatever wouldn't use the "Wealth By Level" chart. That's for player characters. The first sentence in the section for "Wealth by Level" is:

"As PCs gain levels, the amount of treasure they carry and use increases as well."

As Fernn pointed out, you would use the Gear section of the Creating NPCs part of the rules for determining what equipment they had. Keep in mind that the vast majority of it would be stuff that you probably wouldn't want or need at 6th level and could, at best, be sold for 1/2 value. (For example, all the first level characters would have, based on the chart, completely mundane gear of non-masterwork quality with the possible exception of a low level potion or scroll. After examining the chart in total, it's unlikely that any of the NPCs had even a single magic weapon or armor among the group, and probably only a handful of masterwork items. The entire group might have a few scrolls and potions or some low-level spell wands.)


Again, thank you for all your hard work. With this guy I wanted to see how far the game could be broken within the scope of the rules. (A fiendish desire I know)

The 30 Cha was from exploiting the advanced race guide

Slow -1
Light sensitivity -1
1 paragon charisma +4, -2 physicals
4/5/6/7 and cha +8
4 adv wisdom
1 object of desire +1 charms

And note the terminology for negative levels refers to thralls not believers which you can see per the table "thrall heard leadership and believers by level" that you have 1 thrall and many believers. This is also supported by this

"A thrallherd’s thrall and believers arrive within 24 hours. Lost thralls are replaced within 24 hours. Believers arrive and are replaced at a rate of the thrallherd’s leadership score per day, with the lowest level believers arriving first."

This establishes a dichotomy.

But yes this character is clearly out of control which is why I took the personal responsibility of replacing him with a harder to play character and banning myself from the advanced race building guide ha ha.

Fernn wrote:
KingDrache64 wrote:

Yes my Cha is 30. That's another story. Lol. But ignore that.

And regardless of negative levels we have long moments where our characters simply live between missions, working professions etc. If legal my character would do this in a few week time span between missions.

Again, this is a jerk move in my opinion and highly evil. And definitely game breaking. That's why I'm choosing a new character. (I plan on this thrall herd guy being an NPC for an evil king later on) but the core question here is "is this legal by game terminology alone?"

For all the reasons and quotations you posted (which THANK YOU BTW for going to such effort, you're awesome!) I'm thinking it is legal.

Alright, well you are asking if something is legal, because of the idea that it can be exploited at lv6. Which is a more than reasonable request, and then you say you have a charisma score of 30.

Because of this, it really isn't much of a concern to be addressed.

Also as I have stated before, if you strip down all your characters, and 6 of your 35 lv1 NPC thralls die, then you die.
The negative levels stack, and having your cohorts roam the world without any of the provisions they have effectively heightens the chance of them dying.

I hope your GM is a merciful GM. If he doesnt care that you are killing a lv5 NPC every other week to loot his corpse, then thats on him for gamebalcing issues, not on the class itself.

Edit: I guess it only applies to your current thrall at hand in the case of negative levels.

however, leading people to death might strike the proper authorities to investigate the mysterious remnants of naked followers.

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