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What ho, esteemed Paizonians!
So, this is a base class for Pathfinder I built a while back, called the wyrmer. Although I've never played D&D 3.5 myself (only PF), I have looked through some old source books, and this class is very much indebted to the 3.5 base class called the Dragonfire Adept as well as, to a lesser extent, the Dragon Shaman base class.
This is no mere conversion, however. The idea was to create a sort of Dragon Discipline-like class, except focused on a breath weapon (with natural attacks as back-up weaponry) and some at-will powers (extraordinary, spell-like and supernatural both). I created this class before either Occult Adventures or Pathfinder Unchained had been released, but have since made a few tweaks to it. I'm not sure yet how this stacks up as an at-will blaster in comparison to the kineticist, but hopefully you guys can tell me. :)
So, without further ado, here's the Google Drive folder containing all the wyrmer stuff:
The folder contains the main Wyrmer document, as well as the Dragon Arts document, the latter being the class' list of selectable abilities. If changes are made to any wyrmer documents, that will be reflected in the contents of the folder available via the above link. The folder also contains a handful of archetypes, primarily based around non-chromatic/metallic types of dragons. Here's a brief description of each one:
Breathwright - An archetype focused around shaping one's breath weapon in new and exciting ways.
Draconic Scion - An archetype that lets you play an actual dragon, albeit one that hastens its growth at the cost of gaining lesser powers than a regular true dragon.
Dragon Warrior- Samurai-ish archetype focused around imperial dragons.
Primeval Wyrmer - Barbarian-ish archetype focused around primal dragons.
Starscale Adept- Alien-ish archetype focused around outer dragons.
Werewyrm- A shapechanger archetype that essentially lets you become a sort of were-dragon.
Wyrmkeeper - Gives up breath weapon and other draconic powers, but instead gains a faerie dragon or a pseudodragon as an animal companion, that gains various powers as you level up.
I'm currently planning on making an archetype based around the esoteric dragons, as well as some kind of undead-ish archetype focused around raveners and wyrmwraiths. I'm also thinking of creating a wacky jabberwock-themed archetype. So if people like the class, those things will probably be in the pipeline soon.
Anyway, hope y'all enjoy!
Cheers,
- Gears
Well I figured out a way to finally view your PDFs on my tablet, but I'm not sure why it works. Previously, the PDFs were super zoomed in and I wasn't able to zoom out. After clicking on yourlink, I change the folder view from thumbnails to list. When I click on the PDF, it fits on the page! It doesn't make sense but I tried it a few times and all seems well...
SKILLS
I like the list. Seems very dragon inspired, although I'm not sure how much dragons would care about engineering and nobility. ;)
BAB
If I had made this class, I would feel the urge to go full-BAB, since dragons kind of kick ass like that. However, PF has shown that 3/4-BAB class are viable in combat and obivously it allows more room to include cool abilities.
DRAGON EMBLEM
I know you put stuff in alphabetical order, but you should put this one first. I was confused when Breath Weapon refered to it. I don't see what the focus skill is supposed to do. Did I miss something? Some of these skills make sense, but some others seem like things that other dragon types should be good at (such as Appraise, Fly or the Cha skills). Maybe offer some diversity, such as a smaller bonus to multiple skills or the choice to choose one from a list. In the case of things like stealth, perhaps it would be fun to implement something like the ranger's terrain mastery. Have them gains a few bonuses when they are in their emblem dragon's traditional terrain (swamps for black, forests for green, etc).
BREATH WEAPON
I have problems with this one. First, the myrner can use it more often than a real dragon (who must wait 1d4 rounds). Unlimited use as often as desired. Maybe a recharge time or uses per day? Second, it's unlimited auto-damage. There are a couple of cantrips that deal damage, but they don't really improve over time and they require an attack roll. Even on a successful save there is some damage. Maybe at 1st level the warmer can spit fire instead of breathing a cloud. Perhaps there is a pool of points that she can use to improve upon a low-powered base attack? For the sake of simplicity, I would keep the damage at one die type, instead of this 1d8/2d4 thing. You've already implemented the range, and I think that does the trick.
RESILIENCE
I would remove the ability to ignore energy resistance, and turn that into an ability that can be chosen at a different time.
TONGUE OF WORMS
I would drop the elemental languages and just leave it at adding draconic as a bonus langauge. Is that an ability that dragons get? Basically keep it the same as the wizard ability.
Thanks for the input, Ciaran. Clad you figured out a way to access these wily .pdfs of mine.
The skill list is simply the actual class skills that dragons gain from their racial HD, so that's kinda gonna stay as it is. Dragons are just generally knowledgeable, I guess.
As for dragon emblem, I looked into each kind of dragon and chose a skill which I felt relates to their nature. Thus, I have an explanation for each focus skill. You'd have to tell me which specific ones you have an issue with, and then I can try to explain myself. For now I think I am going to keep one focus skill per emblem. There are dragon arts that grant additional skill options.
The focus skill gains a bonus from the draconic affinity class feature, detailed below. That's its purpose.
Breath weapon is definitely not getting changed in terms of being at-will. Nor, since it's the class' main weapon, am I going to impose a recharge time on it. The damage is decent, but pales in comparison to that of full-BAB characters or blaster mages, thus there's no reason to limit it. As you read on, you will notice that several breath weapon options granted by the dracolung class feature and various dragon arts do have recharge times to balance them out, but I don't think the main vanilla breath weapon warrants it. One of the ideas of this class is that it's supposed to be all at-will. No point pools. No uses per day. Just the odd recharge time or "can only affect the same target once per 24 hours". I kinda wanna stick to that paradigm.
As for the different damage types, I just feel like the range different doesn't do the trick. Hence why I implemented a difference in damage types, as well as the dracolung class feature. I'm not married to the dice difference though, and if more people chime in saying it feels unnecessary, I don't mind dropping it.
Resilience has the ignoring of energy resistance built in because wyrmers have very limited options when it comes to altering their breath weapon's damage type. It's meant to compensate for that. Basically I want people to be able to use their iconic damage type as much as possible without unbalancing the class.
Tongue of worms you may have a good point on. I just sort of tacked on the elemental languages, and it's true that's not really a dragon thing. I wouldn't mind throwing those out.
This looks good.
I can allow these classes in The Cleaves.
Looks interesting.
Few first thoughts (I just started reading):
Breath Weapon: I don't think that 1d8/2d4 distinction between cones and lines is necessary - during the reading it felt clunky to me.
Dracolung: The name of the feature sounds horrible, please rename it! :D
10th level enhancement for cone breaths: 1d8 per level is not the double of 1d8 plus 1d8 per two levels above first. I know what you meant but saying its double adds unnecessary confusion.
14th level enhancement: misses information if it is 30-ft burst, spread, cylinder, or something else...
2nd level enhancement for line breaths: Ancillary sounds great but I'd go with the word secondary effects to avoid confusing less erudite players.
I would add a note explicitly allowing wyrmer to not have to use increased area of effects: e.g. "At 14th level the wyrmer can increase her breath weapon's area of effect to 120-ft line/60-ft. cone".
Draconic Weapons: I'd explicitly list damage die for Medium and Small size characters to save the player seeking the natural weapon damage table.
All in all, this resembles some of my ideas I had about refurbishing Dragonfire Adept and Dragon Shaman - and again, like in case of shadow-based classes we approached many of those ideas from different angles :D
Draconic Assumption: I admit that the name of the feature does not sit well with me (again). Anyway, I feel that maybe wyrmer should be able to turn into a lesser form of dragon (form of the dragon I and later II) earlier, for a limited time. There should be probably also some kind of incentive for the wyrmer to not stay in draconic form all the time (except when passing through narrow passages).
I'll nix the different breath weapon damage dice, I think. They were a late addition anyway and, heck, if two people find them clunky and I am at best indifferent to whether they stay or not, let's dump them.
@Drejk: Dracolung was coined in analogy to "Aqualung", etc.. I think it's a fantastic title so, well, yeah, no. :)
Good catch on the dracolung mechanics though. 10th level is indeed meant to be a radius burst. I'll clarify that. And, what the hell, I'll change it to 'secondary'. And, yeah, you're not supposed to be force to uses the larger breath weapons when you gain them, so I'll amend that too. Much appreciated pointings-out!
As for draconic assumption, I don't think I'm not going to incentivize people to switch to their lesser form. Like, the whole idea of the capstone is that you get to like becoming a fricking dragon, essentially. As for getting the ability to turn into a dragon earlier, check out the werewyrm archetype.
Here I'm kinda with you on the name, though. 'Assumption' can sound rather corny if read wrong. It used to be 'Draconic Apotheosis', but I changed that. Can't remember why. I'll change it back, since Apotheosis (while a bit overused in fantasy nomenclature) at least has the right oomph.
Wyrm Ascendant? Dragon Triumphant? Draconic Body?
Well, I already went and changed it, including changing all the archetypes that replace the ability, so now it's damn well staying as "Draconic Apotheosis". :P
...if I get less lazy later, I might change it to Wyrm Ascendant, because I think I like that one and Apotheosis about as much. Very badass name suggestion. Cheers. :)
How about Draconic Berserker, where a barbarian turns into a dragon when he rages.
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Well, that could be an interesting barbarian archetype, certainly. Although I will say that between draconic bloodragers, the dragon totem line of rage powers and the dragon disciple prestige class, there are quite a few neat draconic options out there for rage-users as is.
Otherwise, I think it would be a fair houserule to allow someone to combine the primeval wyrmer archetype with the werewyrm archetype (simply switching out primal powers rather than dragon arts at 4th, 8th and 14th level). That would achieve a similar result, I daresay.
About the at-will breath weapon: since the Occult adventures we have kineticist who can deal similar amount of damage as a ranged touch attack. He needs a few more levels before he can spam area effects effortlessly, but even at first level pyrokineticist he can create a cone of flame at-will by spending a move action to reduce burn to 0.
I've bookmarked this thread.
Happy about the dots. :)
Anyway, my whole thinking is that yes, while a 15-foot cone of fire at will is quite powerful at 1st level, it's not grotesque. I mean, the damage is a single d8, no bonus damage, no riders unless you pick a dragon art to add them on. A Reflex save halves the damage and negates any riders. You'll definitely have a goodish chance of mowing a few mooks down with a single cone if they have bad Reflex saves, but that kind of stuff is more to do with level 1 hp being so abysmally low. I've seen barbarians one-shot "bosses" at 1st level.
So, for now, I'm thinking there is nothing unbalancing about the breath weapon being at-will. I'm more unsure of some of the spell-like abilities available as dragon arts, as it's a lot more complex to determine the implications of granting certain spells at will, since they tend to have more intricate effects.
Cheers,
- Gears
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I'm going to give this one a playtest in a one-shot this week.
Oh, that's so cool! I currently have a 12th-level white dragon wyrmer being playtested in one of my group's side games, but she's only been played in one really short sesh, so more playtest info is always appreciated. :)
Cheers,
- Gears
Tiny update: I changed the Draconic Madness dragon art to only be able to affect the same creature once every 24 hours, since it seemed too powerful otherwise for a lesser dragon art. I also changed the electricity version of augmented breath weapon to allow a secondary Fort save to resist becoming stunned. Does the latter seem reasonable? I just had this feeling that at-will stunning (even if only for 1 round) seemed too powerful without an additional means of negating it.
Tiny Updated II: Tiny Update Harder: Changed the Glacial Fortress dragon art from an improved to a greater dragon art. At-will wall of ice seemed a bit wonky to be able to gain as early as 6th level.