So this is kind of an one post optimization guide for a specific build, hence the spoilers to help divide the post into parts to make it easier to read (hopefully).
The basics
Human (or Half elf)
Unchained Monk (Monk of Many Styles)
Staff Magus (hexcrafter optional, but recommended)
Leveling Order
Monk first, Magus Second, Monk third, Magus Forever (maybe)
Bonus feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Fauchard)
level 1 feat: Weapon Focus(Quarterstaff) <- this is why unchained monk first.
Monk Bonus: Spear Dancing Style (Fauchard)
Magus Bonus: Quarterstaff Master
3rd level: Ascetic Style (Quarterstaff)
Monk Bonus: Spear Dancing Spiral
5th level: Scorpion Style
7th level: Ascetic Form
If you take hexcrafter: Hex strike
Sometime before 15th level: Gorgon's Fist
Sometime after 10th level: Perfect Strike
15th level: Medusa's Wrath
So here's what happens:
Spear Dancing Style is free of prerequisites due to Monk of Many Styles, and means any feat we can use with a quarterstaff we can use with a Fauchard.
Ascetic style lets us use a quarterstaff (read: Fauchard) with any feat that normally requires unarmed strikes. This means we can stunning fist, hex strike, and perfect strike with a Fauchard. Ascetic Form means we actually get enough uses of stunning fist and perfect strike to make them worthwhile.
That's cool, gets you through the lower levels have fun with a polearm that is one handed and has an 18~20 crit range that provides possible stunning, or your rerolls after level 10 (to qualify for perfect strike)
Grab a wyroot handle for your Fauchard so you can recharge up to 3 arcane points a day.
Now the real fun begins at level 15, when you get Medusa's Wrath.
Medusa's Wrath gives you two extra unarmed attacks (read fauchard attacks now) when you full attack that can only be used against enemies that are: dazed, flat footed, staggered, paralyzed, stunned or unconscious.
You have a second level spell called Frigid Touch... that auto-staggers its target.
That means you have two extra attacks against that enemy, so your full attack is now +X/+X/+X/+X-5/+X-10 (without haste).
You also qualify for weapon specialization if you want it for the quarterstaff (read fauchard), and if you really want to you could take ascetic strike and monastic legacy to take your weapon damage up to 2d6 at end game levels, but I think that would be a waste. Dazing spell would be a good choice.
Finally consider 4 levels of unchained monk total instead 2. This would open up the ki pool to you with 1 power, and put your total BAB to +16 at level 20 instead of +15 (meaning +X/+X/+X/+X-5/+X-10/+X-15 without haste). This would allow taking Ki Arcana and allow you to expand your arcane pool points if you so choose.
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If you want to go strength focused two levels of unchained monk of many styles will do you.
If you don't want to go strength focused you can go straight magus and take the two weapon fighting and weapon finesse. If you do this I would suggest being dexterity focused and taking slashing grace as well (in for a penny in for a pound). You are going to need weapon focus(polearm) instead of weapon focus(quarterstaff) though.
I lied: New thoughts:
The triple Defense build
Kensai Magus 1
Unchained Monk (your choices here, unless you go with the fauchard then monk of many styles again)
Kensai Magus X
Kensai weapon(urumi)
weapon finesse
Slashing Grace
Ascetic Style(urumi)
5th level: Scorpion Style
7th level: Ascetic Form
Sometime before 15th level: Gorgon's Fist
15th level: Medusa's Wrath
What it does
The same thing with the Medusa's Wrath in the long run, but without perfect strike, and using a urumi.
You have Dexterity, Wisdom, and Intelligence all being added to your Defense, meaning with good stats you have good AC early game with little investment in it (you can easily start with a 16 in each of the three stats giving +9 to AC at level 2).
Offense is through slashing grace, and your normal abilities. You can't hex strike though so that's a bummer, but it comes on line faster (as far as basic abilities go).
Nothing stops you from deciding to go with the fauchard, but you would have to take quarterstaff master yourself and you don't qualify until level 6, meaning level 7 before you could spell combat with it. This would open up perfect strike to you again.
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Spear Dancing Style is free of prerequisites due to Monk of Many Styles, and means any feat we can use with a quarterstaff we can use with a Fauchard.
I'm not sure how you see this working, but SDS requires a polearm or spear, and a q'staff is neither of that. Also, the Fauchard isn't in any of the fighter's weapon groups.
Offense is through slashing grace, and your normal abilities.
Due to errata, slashing grace doesn't work with spell combat any more.
Fauchard is too on the polearm list
I don't know how often the websites get updated, but with the weapons master's handbook Fauchard made the list (web post shared just for easy proof).
Quarterstaff doesn't have to be. Quarterstaff is in the monk's weapons group.
Spear dancing style lets us use any feat that works with the quarterstaff with the fauchard.
We use ascetic style with the quarterstaff, so now we can use fauchard with ascetic style.
Weapon focus quarterstaff is the prerequisite we have to meet for ascetic style.
We don't have to meet any prerequisites for spear dancing style because we used our monk of many style bonus feats on it (and spear dancing spiral).
Yeah slashing grace is off the table, I keep forgetting about that. Save the feat and grab and agile weapon.
If you are really dead set against the fuachard you can instead use the nodachi, which is again on the polearm list, and therefore can be used with spear dancing style allowing access to everything that you use with quarterstaff meaning everything you use with unarmed strike as well.
I'm not certain if this will direly affect your build, but Master of Many Styles was never officially updated to work with Unchained Monk, as far as I am aware.
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Spear dancing style lets us use any feat that works with the quarterstaff with the fauchard.
Good to know that fauchard is officially a polearm now, but I still don't think this combo works.
Ascetic Style says, "while using this style and wielding the [quarterstaff], you can apply the effects of [spear dancing], as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks."
Since Spear Dancing doesn't involve unarmed attacks, this doesn't do anything. Even if it did, you'd have to be wielding a q'staff in order to get the bonuses with the fauchard.
On the other hand, getting Hex Strike on an unarmed Hexcrafter Magus is a decent combo.
I think the chain substitution from unarmed to Fauchard by way of Quarterstaff is fine, but the character doesn't qualify for Spear Dancing Spiral with the nerfhammered MoMS.
I think the chain substitution from unarmed to Fauchard by way of Quarterstaff is fine, but the character doesn't qualify for Spear Dancing Spiral with the nerfhammered MoMS.
Crap, got a link? What did they do now?
I think the chain substitution from unarmed to Fauchard by way of Quarterstaff is fine, but the character doesn't qualify for Spear Dancing Spiral with the nerfhammered MoMS.Crap, got a link? What did they do now?
The giant nerfhammer errata to Ultimate Combat.
In the Master of Many Styles archetype, change the
Bonus Feat ability to the following:
Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels
thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus
style feat or the Elemental Fist feat (Advanced Player’s Guide
158). He does not need to meet the prerequisites of that
feat, except the Elemental Fist feat. Starting at 6th level, a
master of many styles can choose to instead gain a wildcard
style slot. Whenever he enters one or more styles, he can
spend his wildcard style slots to gain feats in those styles’
feat paths (such as Earth Child Topple) as long as he meets
the prerequisites. Each time he changes styles, he can also
change these wildcard style slots. This ability replaces a
monk’s standard bonus feats.
well isn't that just the biggest load of crap?
"Yeah this thing worked... our bad we forgot monk... there borked!"
hm...
Alright, I got the work around now:
Here we go:
Fighter 2, Staff Magus x, Unchained Monk of many styles 1, Magus
How we do it:
We are taking the Nodachi now. An 18~20, two handed polearm without reach that is a martial weapon.
Human
level 1 Fighter:
Weapon Focus(Nodachi), Two weapon fighting, Spear Dancing Style
Level 2 Fighter:
Weapon Finesse
Level 3 Staff Magus:
Quarterstaff Master, Spear Dancing Spiral
Level 4 Staff Magus:
Level 5 Staff Magus:(open), or weapon focus(quarterstaff)
Level 6 Staff Magus:
Level 7 Monk:
Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Ascetic Style(quarterstaff), (open) or Ascetic Form
Level 8 Staff Magus ~ Level 13 (fit in scorpion style, Gorgon Fist, and if you want it perfect strike(quarterstaff))
Level 14 Staff Magus:
(Magus level 11 bonus feat) Medusa's Wraith.
The bad news:
We have to take two weapon focus feats
The good news: BAB stays up, provided you don't lose the bonus feats all options for fighter archetypes are open.
Options:
Ascetic Form and perfect strike as to when you take it. You can float your monk level until you are satisfied you are solid with where you are and then go ahead into the dip for ascetic style and form. IF you take Ascetic Form at 7 (by taking weapon focus(quarterstaff) at 5), then you can fit scorpion style, gorgon's fist and perfect strike in by level 14 for medusa's wraith to come on line. You can then take a monk level at level 15, retrain spear dancing to your bonus feat and have two feat choices at level 15.
You could also take monk at level 4, retrain spear dancing then and put off the ascetic style until you want it later, leaving you with an open feat for damage earlier.
Late game:
1.Take a second level of monk and retrain spear dancing style. This gets evasion, better saves (+15 F / +7 R / + 12 W) and means a maximum BAB of +16
2.Take another level in fighter and get whatever you get at level 3 based on what archetype you take -- weapon master nodachi might be nice because it opens up weapon training 1 to you, granting access to the item that increases weapon training allowing a +3 bonus to hit and damage, also will improve will and reflex saves (+14 F / + 8 R / + 13 W) since it's level 3. It also means you have a maximum BAB of +16
3.Go magus the rest of the way. You will get another bonus feat and more spells per day, but BAB and saves cap lower (+15 BAB +15 f / + 7 R / + 12 W)
Er, you can't take pre-unchained monk archetypes with an u-monk...
Where is that stated? Because the intro to unchained states exactly the opposite.
Since the release of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook, countless game sessions have revealed that certain classes have been pushing against their constraints, yearning to break free into something at once familiar and new. This chapter includes unchained versions of the barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner, as well as subsystems that alter character advancement. These classes can be used alongside their original counterparts (although individual characters must use one version or the other exclusively). Some feats, rage powers, rogue talents, and other rules might not work with the unchained classes, and such rules should be reviewed before being used with the new versions. Finally, with the exception of the monk, these classes should work with any of the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still have the appropriate class features to replace.
Unchained monk works with some archetypes, but not all which is why that sentence is worded how it is.
Unchained monk has all of the abilities I need to trade in order to take master of many styles.
A is stated to work with x
B is not stated to work with x
Conclusion, B does not work with x
Permissive ruleset aren't that hard
Unchained monk works with some archetypes, but not all which is why that sentence is worded how it is.No, that sentence means "other u-classes work with some/most older archetypes, the monk works with none of them".
Except it does not.
that is the rules for PFS (which I'm not building for obviously)
But that sentence says the following:
1. Unchained class should work with any (read; all) archetypes.
2. Monk is an exception to this.
And
3. The class has to have the feature that is replaced by the archetype.
That does not state:
4. Monks may not take any archetypes.
Obviously some archetypes will not work, and in PFS no archetype works, however PFS is not official rules.
Also in none of the threads on the subject has the PdT or any of the designers actually stated you cannot take archetypes with unchained monk.
The closest to an answer I have found is here where one guy says at a Q and A, that it was possible, but not PFS legal (not a problem here) just that there might be issues.
Well after the rebuild it's not like it full matters which monk you use, after all we are using the fighter levels at level 1 for weapon focus.
Exception means not like or stands out. It does not mean opposite of, but does not state how it is not like or stands out from the other thing.
it is not like the other because the others get Archetypes to work on them.
All classes, but not the monk, should work with archetypes.
All classes should work with archetypes, except the monk.
All classes should work with archetypes, but not the monk.
So Kurald Galain why don't the chained substitutions work?
leaving the point of unchained monks and archetypes out of the picture (I'm willing to grant the point on that) what is wrong with the feat chain?