Crafting Magic Items: Determining DC

[Phergas]

Hi - I'm looking for some clarification on this subject because I've encountered different opinions related to what exactly contributes to determining the DC to craft an item.

An "official" response, or a link to an errata that addresses this issue, assuming the alternate opinion is correct, would be extremely helpful in putting this to bed in our group.

Example 1:

A Belt of Giant Strength has a CL of 8. The DC to create this item would be 8 (the value of the CL) plus an additional 5 (per the rulebook). For a total DC of 13.

The construction requirements are:

Craft Wondrous Item, bull's strength; Cost 2,000 gp (+2), 8,000 gp (+4), 18,000 gp (+6)

Therefore crafting a Belt of Giant Strength +2 has the same DC as a Belt of Giant Strength +6 because according the rulebook the DC is 5 + the caster level of the item which is still 8.

Alternative Opinion Using the Same Example:

A Belt of Giant Strength has a CL of 8, but CL is not used in determining the DC of the item because it is NOT listed as a requirement in the items creation. Instead the DC to create this item is 3 x the enhancement bonus of the item.

Therefore crafting a Belt of Giant Strength +2 would have a DC of 6 (3 times the bonus of the item) plus 5 to equal 11. While a Belt of Giant Strength +6 would have a DC of 18 (3 times the bonus of the item) plus 5 equal to 23.

This debate surfaced because of some information found in another thread on the Paizo rules forum. It came from Sean K Reynolds, who apparently is a contributor and former Paizo Developer.

Sean said:

"Caster level is only a prerequisite for creating the item IF the caster level is LISTED in the Requirements section of the item (for an example, see amulet of mighty fists).

The text on page 460 is a little unclear and probably is derived from the (wrong) SRD text taken from the (wrong) DMG 3.0 magic item introduction (where Monte wrote it correctly, then someone changed it to something wrong and that's how it got published, and fixed in the errata for 3.0, and then 3.5 was written by updating the original 3.0 Word documents, which didn't incorporate the 3.0 errata, and thus went to print with wrong information again). Anyway, caster level is NOT a prereq unless the item's Requirement section specifically lists a caster level."

Which example that I have listed above is correct? Again, anything officially sanctioned by Paizo on this subject would be extremely helpful in putting this to bed.

[skizzerz]

Flagged for wrong forum, this one is for the Adventure Card Game :)

Anyway:

PRD wrote:

The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item.

The CL of the item being in the prerequisites simply means you take a +5 penalty to it should you not be of that caster level (due to not meeting that prerequisite). The base DC is still based on the CL of the item. The enhancement bonus of belt of giant strength only affects the price, not the DC of the check to create it, where the base price of an item that grants an Ability bonus (enhancement) is the Bonus squared × 1,000 gp.

[Phergas]

skizzerz wrote:

Flagged for wrong forum, this one is for the Adventure Card Game :)

Anyway:

PRD wrote:

The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item.

The CL of the item being in the prerequisites simply means you take a +5 penalty to it should you not be of that caster level (due to not meeting that prerequisite). The base DC is still based on the CL of the item. The enhancement bonus of belt of giant strength only affects the price, not the DC of the check to create it, where the base price of an item that grants an Ability bonus (enhancement) is the Bonus squared × 1,000 gp.

Opps! Sorry about that!

And thanks for answering haha.

[ryric]

It is the wrong forum, but Skizzerz is incorrect - all the CL of an item does is set the Craft DC and how hard the item is to dispel...it in no way is a requirement for crafting. (Unless it is explicitly listed in the Prerequisites section) You can even reduce the CL down to a minimum reasonable for whatever item you're making - generally that minimum is whatever is needed for the spells used to make it. So you could make a CL3 belt of giant strength if you GM allowed. It would technically be a custom item and thus require GM approval.

Your example 1 is correct. I have no idea where the Alternate opinion came from but it is incorrect. The only items that require CL=3x the enhancement bonus are weapons and armor, and in those cases the CL is explicitly a prerequisite so you must have it or add 5 to the craft DC.

[skizzerz]

ryric wrote:

It is the wrong forum, but Skizzerz is incorrect - all the CL of an item does is set the Craft DC and how hard the item is to dispel...it in no way is a requirement for crafting. (Unless it is explicitly listed in the Prerequisites section) You can even reduce the CL down to a minimum reasonable for whatever item you're making - generally that minimum is whatever is needed for the spells used to make it. So you could make a CL3 belt of giant strength if you GM allowed. It would technically be a custom item and thus require GM approval.

Your example 1 is correct. I have no idea where the Alternate opinion came from but it is incorrect. The only items that require CL=3x the enhancement bonus are weapons and armor, and in those cases the CL is explicitly a prerequisite so you must have it or add 5 to the craft DC.

I could have been more clear, I admit. My response regarding the prereq was attempting to clarify the comment OP quoted from Sean K Reynolds where the CL is listed in the prerequisites (such as for amulet of mighty fists). In that case, should you not have the required CL you add +5 to the difficulty of the check. I did not mean to imply that not having the item's CL adds +5 to the difficulty even in the event that it is not listed.