How would something like this happen in the off time?
That aside, I'm fine with allowing templates or even race change type mechanics in my games. If I had a player who wanted something like that, I'd probably figure out ways to help the other players even out.
I don't change how a society reacts to an undead or lycanthrope just because the character is a PC.
I ran mixed White Wolf games for years. I understand disruptive party composition. :P
If something like what you describe comes up, that's when it's a chance for a creative player to shine in devising a solution, or for the DM to give a few suggestions. Maybe a vampire player needs to do something during the day but forgot their Protective Penumbra wand/ring in their other trousers. That's why vampires get control powers, so they can have a loyal servant take care of daytime matters. In fact, a quick polymorph spell later, and the loyal servant can even be a body double for times such is necessary. I would probably have the player use the servant as a character for daytime activities when needed.
A werewolf in d20 systems either needs to get some ability to control their changes, or make adequate preparation. If a player wants to stick with lycanthrophy, I would allow them to take the Improved Change Form (or something like that... It was from a 3.x book) feat, which would give them a better chance of not becoming a savage murderous beast.
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I don't change how a society reacts to an undead or lycanthrope just because the character is a PC.Of course not, but it's not fun as a player to be locked out of a session because you were bitten by a rabid werebunny and failed a few fortitude saves.
But that's not the relevant question here. Reread the first post. The question is about a player who wants to come back to a game as one of these creatures BY HIS OWN CHOICE.
Varies by ailment.
Undeath is easy.
Quick and dirty answer?
Kill em, bring em back.
Can't be a ghoul if you're dead.
Can't be a ghoul if you're living.
If you're too low level for that, well, looks like you're down a character.
At that point, it's no real different than if you took an axe crit to the face.
Your character died to an effect.
If you try to embrace it, well, power comes with a price.
You live (or unlive) with the weight of your template; the beneficial and the detrimental.
Bigger thing is that alignment and mentality shifts will probably lead such a PC to become a GM tool rather than a player character.
What is the bluff/disguise DC for pretending to be a very hairy catfolk as a lycan?
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Generally speaking, if you're undead or whatever, I'd suggest making a new PC. The character's original 'soul' is no longer in control of their actions.
Things like the Vampire template are too powerful to hand out to someone as a reward for being careless - and the disadvantages that come with it (paladins trying to kill you) don't balance them out as much as they disrupt the whole game.
If you have a more narrative game where balance doesn't matter much, then you might be able to work around it.
How are you handling the bump in power the template gives?
Some of those make the character the equivalent of 3-4 levels higher than the rest of the party. Are you taking away levels from the template character? Are you granting levels to the rest of the party to make up for it?
Well, are you the DM or the player?
What is the circumstance of the ailment?
There are a ton of variables at play in this kind of situation.
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It's kind of a pain when dealing with poorly made templates (like the vampire template) but one fairly smooth way to handle it is using the monster-PC rules from the core book (though I'd recommend you don't reduce the CR-adjustment for them as they advance in level).
Your race changing (such as being turned into a sentient undead) doesn't remove your XP points (no where in the rules does it suggest as such), so you might need to rebuild the character a bit.
A ranger 8 that turns into a ghoul may find themselves as a Ranger 7 / Ghoul 1.
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I'm just asking a general question. If this were to happen to me, I'd probably be the GM, though.
I'm wondering how you guys have or would solve the problem of a strange, possibly disruptive template. Do you guys just call it quits and have the player roll up a new sheet? Do you give concessions- change the circumstances of the event so their template doesn't get in the way of party enjoyment? Do you meet somewhere in the middle, like giving a Vampire the ability to trade Dominate Person and that fog form thing out in exchange for the ability to walk in sunlight (briefly) and cross moving water?
On the specific subject of vampires, I find the existing vampire template somewhat distasteful. Besides being a mish-mash of as many vampire powers and weaknesses as they could dig up, they don't really make for good stories due to how repulsively easy it is to out them as vampires due to their aforementioned mish-mash of weaknesses.
When GMing, I used an alternate template that I wrote for a campaign that was going to involve vampires heavily and have some PCs that would be vampires.
I'm just asking a general question. If this were to happen to me, I'd probably be the GM, though.
I'm wondering how you guys have or would solve the problem of a strange, possibly disruptive template. Do you guys just call it quits and have the player roll up a new sheet? Do you give concessions- change the circumstances of the event so their template doesn't get in the way of party enjoyment? Do you meet somewhere in the middle, like giving a Vampire the ability to trade Dominate Person and that fog form thing out in exchange for the ability to walk in sunlight (briefly) and cross moving water?
On the specific subject of vampires, I find the existing vampire template somewhat distasteful. Besides being a mish-mash of as many vampire powers and weaknesses as they could dig up, they don't really make for good stories due to how repulsively easy it is to out them as vampires due to their aforementioned mish-mash of weaknesses.
When GMing, I used an alternate template that I wrote for a campaign that was going to involve vampires heavily and have some PCs that would be vampires.
I suspect it's because Paizo draws from the old AD+D vampire which was inspired by Hammer films more than the Stoker novel.
I'm not-not yet, at least. I'm asking you guys how you would handle it.
However, we can assume the infected character is of the same level or power range as the rest of the party.
Honestly it would really be dependant on the template. As mentioned vampires are a huge bump in power just to tack on.
There are a few alternate rules for them as PCs though. Way of the Wicked has some feats and guidelines to use, as does Lords of the Night (which is a vampire campaign setting for PCs) so it is rather well covered if you decided to do it.
But generally tacking on the template with no class level adjustment isn't anything besides powering up the character due to type abilities. So it should be adjusted somehow.
I don’t allow templates because it is too difficult to balance the party when one player has one and the others do not. If a character gains a template it usually means it becomes an NPC. The exception would be something like lycanthropy where the player is not in control and that can be removed. When the lycanthropy changed it would become an NPC. I would probably still let the player run it in combat vs the other players as long as he was playing the curse properly. Since I also only run good campaigns any character not looking to remove the curse would become a NPC.
It won't be out until the fall, but supposedly the Horror Adventures hardcover will have a rules system for gradually turning into a monster, that doesn't rely on just giving a PC a template.
The exception would be something like lycanthropy where the player is not in control and that can be removed. When the lycanthropy changed it would become an NPC. I would probably still let the player run it in combat vs the other players as long as he was playing the curse properly. Since I also only run good campaigns any character not looking to remove the curse would become a NPC.
I once had a hard time justifying to my group why becoming a werebear would be a bad thing, since there's nothing intrinsically evil about them.
I'm just asking a general question. If this were to happen to me, I'd probably be the GM, though.
I'm wondering how you guys have or would solve the problem of a strange, possibly disruptive template. Do you guys just call it quits and have the player roll up a new sheet? Do you give concessions- change the circumstances of the event so their template doesn't get in the way of party enjoyment? Do you meet somewhere in the middle, like giving a Vampire the ability to trade Dominate Person and that fog form thing out in exchange for the ability to walk in sunlight (briefly) and cross moving water?
Well historically it was called out in the text of the monster that could inflict the change of status. And what it said was... a character that succumbs to _______ falls under control of the DM and becomes an NPC.
The reason for that was rooted in consequences. In the default worlds lycanthrophy, undeath, vampirism were not acceptable social norms. A PC infected by such a thing would become a target. Either by altruistic people wishing to find a cure, or pragmatic people considering it a threat needing extermination.It's really dependent on the flavor of your game world. Are they viewed as curses that exact a heavy price or are you viewing them as stat increases that make you superhuman and let you sparkle? or something in between.
There is no right answer to this question as it depends on the player, the group and the campaign.
If the player wants the power boost then it is probably a bad thing for the group and the campaign.
It can work with a mature group. I GMed a campaign where a character succumbed to taint (from Heroes of Horror) and I allowed the player to continue playing the character (it was an LE aligned party fighting a CE cult) but with the caveat that they had to play the role of the tainted minion that they became. It worked for a while as the group's goals and the tainted minion's goals were compatible but once the tainted minion's goals were incompatible it was time for the player to let go of the character.
Ghouls can be interesting. I have noted that in many modules an evil cleric is in charge of more ghouls than they can command, so they must be capable of being reasoned with. However, with the ghouls' hunger they must be being fed on a regular basis. I think the Libris Mortis rules cover this well. If a player was to play a ghoul or similar undead with a need to feed I would allow them to function, providing they included feeding. But including a ghoul in the group would require a very unusual party.
Blood of the Night has rules for undead hunger if you're curious. I expect those rules will get a reprint in the upcoming "Horror Adventures" hardcover.
It nicely and neatly explains how an undead PC must make constant Will saves or be compelled on fall upon the nearest living target to feed. Zombies and Ghouls and other undead need a pound of prior-sentient flesh, while vampires must feed via their blood drain.