Fish to Fins Permanancy option?

[Theta Thief]

So I'm looking at the Mermaid race and I saw that they made a spell specific for the race called fins to feet which does what it says.

My question is even though it isn't specifically stated in the spell description do you think someone should be allowed to make a fins to feet permanent? I look at it as a physical transmutation much like enlarge person or reduce person which can be made permanent.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Wei Ji the Learner]

It costs the subject of the spell their voice?

[Theta Thief]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

It costs the subject of the spell their voice?

HAHA I actually came this close to making a Little Mermaid joke in the original post.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Theta Thief wrote:

So I'm looking at the Mermaid race and I saw that they made a spell specific for the race called fins to feet which does what it says.

My question is even though it isn't specifically stated in the spell description do you think someone should be allowed to make a fins to feet permanent? I look at it as a physical transmutation much like enlarge person or reduce person which can be made permanent.

What are your thoughts on this?

It's not really something for me to say yea or nay as there is no general rule and you haven't provided any story context, which really should be the overriding decider.

If you're asking for a strictly rules answer it's no, because Permanency has a very strict list of what spells can be affected by it, and it's only added to by specific text in the spell's description.

[Theta Thief]

Okay and that's fair. Like I said it was created as a spell like ability for Merfolk and later into a spell certain classes could learn. But I didn't know if in newer spells they included that caveat or if it was a general rule that transmutation spells could be made permanent again like the aforementioned reduce and enlarge person spells.

As for the story there really isn't one I'm just going through the races and like the idea of a Merfolk who later down the line would either pay someone to cast permanency on their Fins to feet or do it themselves.

In all honestly my DM is fairly loose with the rules in the sense that if we the players can explain why we want something and how it would work (i.e. balancing, thematics, and whatnot) he's usually fine with it.

[graystone]

Merfolk can already take Secret Magic to get 1/day— fins to feet. It's a new alternate racial trait from the Inner Sea Races book.

[Goddity]

I think you would have to spend a feat to do that.

[Theta Thief]

True but that only last 1 hour per level and I can only cast it once per day like you said. Most fights in our games are spread out over the day as such I would like to not have to be a sitting duck for most combat encounters in the early game.

[Kvantum]

Darkvision is a spell with a 1 hour/caster level duration. I'd certainly think you should be able to Permanency Fins to Feet for no more than the 5000 gp it would cost for permanent Darkvision. Probably the same minimum 10th level caster, too.

Again, though, strictly RAW, no, but if your GM is ok with it, go for it.

[Goddity]

It still seems fishy.

I can keep going all day

[Theta Thief]

God the puns hurt my soul. They hurts it so bad!

[Goddity]

But puns are the Basst.

[Imbicatus]

Merfolk don't have legs. The spell is a 3rd level spell. RAW it's not something you can make permanent. Your GM can houserule it, but not having legs is a big drawback for being a merfolk. Having the spell always on lets you use your swim speed as needed and still walk on land. That seems a bit much, especially at low level. I don't think I would allow it, especially with the SLA option available.

[graystone]

Theta Thief wrote:

True but that only last 1 hour per level and I can only cast it once per day like you said. Most fights in our games are spread out over the day as such I would like to not have to be a sitting duck for most combat encounters in the early game.

Well if you don't mind 3rd party, there is the Walk the Land racial trait in the Book of Heroic Races: Advanced Merfolk. It pretty much trades your armored scales for the ability to alter self at will into a human. [no ability scores adjustment though]

If the above is a no-go, think about a feat/trait to modify the Secret Magic. One that lets you use the fins to feet in 1 hour blocks instead of all at once.

EDIT: Here's a link to the review of the Advanced Merfolk book, including the Walk the Land trait: Advanced Merfolk

[Theta Thief]

Imbicatus wrote:

Merfolk don't have legs. The spell is a 3rd level spell. RAW it's not something you can make permanent. Your GM can houserule it, but not having legs is a big drawback for being a merfolk. Having the spell always on lets you use your swim speed as needed and still walk on land. That seems a bit much, especially at low level. I don't think I would allow it, especially with the SLA option available.

True but Merfolk have a racial ability that allow them to cast it once per day. Spell like abilities can be used in the making of magic items so I wouldn't see why one couldn't use it for a permanency spell if you could make it permanent. Plus I'll admit I didn't notice that it did not in fact say you loose your swim speed, but I would give that up for the legs.

Lastly I wouldn't find it to OP because you wold have to wait until 4th or 5th level to be able to afford a permanency spell (estimating the cost to be somewhere between 2,500 to 5,000gp) So you would be stuck with the slow speed until then and at that point it's no different than buying a magic item that increases speed or AC. That's not even getting into the fact that I could always just buy a war trained mount.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

graystone wrote:

Theta Thief wrote:

True but that only last 1 hour per level and I can only cast it once per day like you said. Most fights in our games are spread out over the day as such I would like to not have to be a sitting duck for most combat encounters in the early game.

Well if you don't mind 3rd party, there is the Walk the Land racial trait in the Book of Heroic Races: Advanced Merfolk. It pretty much trades your armored scales for the ability to alter self at will into a human. [no ability scores adjustment though]

EDIT: Here's a link to the review of the Advanced Merfolk book, including the Walk the Land trait: Advanced Merfolk

Thanks for mentioning us graystone.

You can read Malwing's review and download Book of Heroic Races: Advanced Merfolk right here at Paizo. It has a number of excellent merfolk options.