I'd like to introduce Bob. Bob is a 12th-level bloodrager with a few relevant feats: power attack, cornugon smash, and signature skill: intimidate. He has, oh, let's say a +24 to intimidate checks.
I'd like to introduce John. John is a 12th-level human with a wisdom of 10.
Bob and John don't like each other.
Bob whacks John upside the head. Power attack! Hit! Free intimidate check! He has to hit a 22 on his demoralize check. He rolls a 10, getting 34 on his check, enough to make John shaken.
Unchained intimidate says he can panic John instead. The will save for John to avoid panic should be 22.
So here's my question: DOES JOHN TAKE -2 ON THIS SAVE FROM BEING SHAKEN?
The argument for: unchained intimidate says, "A Will save (DC = 10 + your number of ranks in Intimidate) negates the frightened or panicked condition, but the target is still shaken, even if it has the stalwart ability." Note that even if panic is negated, the target is still shaken, implying that they're shaken whether or not the panic works. Maybe they're shaken when they're trying to fight off the panic.
The argument against: that's very clunky, and it's not explicitly called out by the rules. If there were going to be a penalty on the save, why not incorporate it directly into the save to begin with, making the save 12+ranks in intimidate?
I'm leaning toward thinking there's no penalty on this save, but am curious what others think.
