| JLendon |
Hamstring (Ex): At 7th level, as long as a mouser has at least 1 panache point when she hits a foe whose size is larger than her own with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon, she can as a swift action attempt a dirty trick combat maneuver check. Instead of the normal conditions that can be applied with dirty trick, this deed can only stagger the target if the check is successful. This deed replaces targeted strike.
Seems to me, it doesn't say it won't, so, without the Improved feat, it does.
And you'll still need the Agile Maneuvers Feat to use Dex for the CMB. You're not actually using your weapon to do the maneuver, so you don't get to add any weapon-based bonuses, right?
| JLendon |
I would normally agree, but both of the Mouser's previous abilities, Underfoot Assault and Quick Steal, specifically say that they don't provoke an aoo when used, and this one doesn't.
Also, Hamstring doesn't really say you're using the weapon to perform the Dirty Trick. It is a separate, swift action using...something, probably the weapon. I know that weapons generally have to have a special ability, like trip, disarm, or sunder, to be able to add weapon bonuses and feats to the CMB using them.
| BigNorseWolf |
I know that weapons generally have to have a special ability, like trip, disarm, or sunder, to be able to add weapon bonuses and feats to the CMB using them.
Hamstring (Ex): At 7th level, as long as a mouser has at least 1 panache point when she hits a foe whose size is larger than her own with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon
The name of the ability is hamstring. You have to not only hit them with a weapon, you have to hit them with a subset of weapons. You are hamstringing them with your weapon.
I know that weapons generally have to have a special ability, like trip, disarm, or sunder, to be able to add weapon bonuses and feats to the CMB using them.
Nope. Trip only lets you drop the weapon if you fail your attempt by 10. You can trip with anything.
| JLendon |
I know you can use any weapon to make a trip, but you can't add any weapon enhancement, feat, etc. bonuses to the CMB check unless the weapon has the appropriate special feature; in this case "trip". There is no weapon with a Dirty Trick feature, so you'd only use your base CMB. If you have the Agile Maneuver feat you would get to add your DEX instead of STR.
| Avoron |
Incorrect; there's a designer blog post about it.
Anyone can use a weapon to trip, disarm, or sunder, adding any bonuses appropriate to that weapon.
You may only use a weapon to perform a drag or reposition maneuver if you are using a weapon with the trip special feature.
Other maneuvers can be performed with a weapon only if you have a class ability that explicitly allows you to, such as the Polearm Master's sweeping fend, or if your GM decides to houserule that you can perform a certain maneuver with a certain weapon because it seems reasonable.
| BigNorseWolf |
I know you can use any weapon to make a trip, but you can't add any weapon enhancement, feat, etc. bonuses to the CMB check unless the weapon has the appropriate special feature; in this case "trip".
Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses (enhancement bonuses, feats such as Weapon Focus, fighter weapon training, and so on) apply to the roll.
Whether you can use the weapon (and thus whether things like weapon finesse apply) is entirely dependent on the combat maneuver, not a property of the weapon.
There is no weapon with a Dirty Trick feature, so you'd only use your base CMB. If you have the Agile Maneuver feat you would get to add your DEX instead of STR.
Once you realize -the weapon needs the property to get bonuses on the combat manuver- isn't a rule you're left with this
For other maneuvers, either you’re not using a weapon at all, or the weapon is incidental to making the maneuver and its bonuses shouldn’t make you better at attempting the maneuver. For example, just because you have a +5 greatsword doesn’t mean it gives you a +5 bonus on dirty trick checks (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide 320), and just because you have a +5 dagger doesn’t mean it gives you a +5 bonus on grapple checks. Of course, the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers, such as when using a sap in a dirty trick maneuver to hit an opponent in a sensitive spot.
The last bit is exactly what the mouser is doing: they're poking their weapon (the ability specifies what kind of weapon even) into a sensitive spot on their opponent. Thats using the weapon, and the kind of dirty trick manuver thats supposed to get all the bonuses.
A swashbuckler, and a mouser in particular, is supposed to be an agile fighter. Their special abilities can and DO reflect that.