Having Trouble Reverse-Engineering a Lyrakien


Advice


Improved Familiar is proving to be quite a pain! :)

Here are the Azata's stats. (2nd one down, after Brijidine.)

So, some of my problems:
•Outsiders have Full BAB progression and, as a Tiny creature, the Lyrakien should have the choice of whether to use Strength or Dexterity for it's To-Hit. 3HD with a 19 Dex should place it's Slam attack at a +7, however it is listed at a +2. Why? How? I don't understand...

•Outsiders have, "Skill points equal to 6 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for outsiders: Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth. Due to their varied nature, outsiders also receive 4 additional class skills determined by the creature's theme.
Firstly, I assume the Outsider skill proficiencies and the Familiar skill proficiencies stack?
Secondly, I have no way of knowing what the bolded skills are, and the Lyrakien has more than 4 listed skills that do not generally belong to Outsiders or Azatas specifically. How can I know which one's are getting the +3 Prof bonus and which ones aren't?


The Fly and Perform skills are being particularly difficult.
With 3HD, there's no way I can see that a Lyrakien should be able to get:
+16 to Fly (+3 Skilled, +4 Dex, +3 Skill Points, +4 Size Bonus = 14... Where is that other +2 coming from??)

+16 to Perform (+3 Skilled, +5 Cha, +3 Skill Points = 11... Where is that other +5 coming from??)

And when I reverse engineer all of the listed Skills, with the assumption that every skill listed is treated as proficient, I end up with 34 Skill Ranks used, when they should only have 24 Ranks available (6+Int per HD with 3HD and a 14 Int is 24).


Fly = Class (3) + Skill Ranks (3) + Dex (4) + Size: Tiny (4) + Perfect Maneuverability (8)

This would seem to indicate that the Lyrakien does not have ranks in fly, meaning (4+4+8) should be 16, seems right?

I see Perform (any one) 11, which works out.

Not sure about the rest yet.


Neo2151 wrote:
•Outsiders have Full BAB progression and, as a Tiny creature, the Lyrakien should have the choice of whether to use Strength or Dexterity for it's To-Hit. 3HD with a 19 Dex should place it's Slam attack at a +7, however it is listed at a +2. Why? How? I don't understand...

I know I've read this somewhere, but I don't remember if it applies to Tiny, and I can't find it regardless. So consider this question/concern nixed.

Still would love some help with Skills though. :D


Falxu wrote:

Fly = Class (3) + Skill Ranks (3) + Dex (4) + Size: Tiny (4) + Perfect Maneuverability (8)

This would seem to indicate that the Lyrakien does not have ranks in fly, meaning (4+4+8) should be 16, seems right?

I see Perform (any one) 11, which works out.

Not sure about the rest yet.

Forgot about Perfect Maneuverability providing a bonus!

Also, would probably help if I copy down the numbers correctly, hey? lol
Thanks!


If anything, she seems short 3 skill points as I count 7 skills with 3 ranks in them, which is 21. If you are correct in saying 6+INT mod, then she should have 24 skill points. Perhaps another perform skill?


She has 9 listed Skills, so if Fly doesn't have any skill ranks in it, and all her other Skills are maxed for her HD and count as proficient (except Spellcraft), then it comes out to 24.
That's still not meshing with Outsider Skill proficiencies, but I'll take it rather than beat my head against the wall over it. ^_^


Acrobatics +10 (+3 class +3 ranks +4 Dex)
Bluff +11 (+3 class +3 ranks +5 Cha)
Diplomacy +11 (+3 class +3 ranks +5 Cha)
Fly +16 (+4 Dex +4 size +8 maneuverability)
Knowledge (any one) +8 (+3 class +3 skill +2 Int)
Perception +9 (+3 class +3 ranks +3 Wis)
Perform (any one) +11 (+3 class +3 ranks +5 Cha)
Spellcraft +5 (+3 ranks +2 Int)
Stealth +18 (+3 class +3 ranks +4 Dex +8 size)

Class Skills: 7
From outsider type: Bluff, Perception, Stealth
Four bonus: Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Knowledge (any one), Perform (any one)

Skills with Ranks: 8
Acrobatics, Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (any one), Perception (any one), Perform, Spellcraft, Stealth


Touché!
I did the work, but somehow missed that it added up. >_<

Thanks for the clarification Avoron. :D


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Neo2151 wrote:
Neo2151 wrote:
•Outsiders have Full BAB progression and, as a Tiny creature, the Lyrakien should have the choice of whether to use Strength or Dexterity for it's To-Hit. 3HD with a 19 Dex should place it's Slam attack at a +7, however it is listed at a +2. Why? How? I don't understand...

I know I've read this somewhere, but I don't remember if it applies to Tiny, and I can't find it regardless. So consider this question/concern nixed.

Still would love some help with Skills though. :D

Maybe you're confusing it with Familiar-specific rule?

Prd Wrote wrote:
Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Use the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to calculate the familiar's melee attack bonus with natural weapons. Damage equals that of a normal creature of the familiar's kind.


Yes, non-familiar tiny creatures do not automatically get dex to hit. Since the familiar does get it though, Agile Maneuvers does nothing and should be either retrained or replaced with a familiar-specific feat.

As for class skills, I'd say the class skills listed in the familiar section are meant to be an easy reference to the class skills of the animal type, and that other-type familiars use their own rules for class skills.

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