I'm personally dissatisfied with most of prestige classes in PF. They just don't seem prestigious enough to me. On the contrary they often seem underpowered compared to normal classes (and have built in drawbacks like not getting favored class bonuses as you progress).
That said I was considering the assassing (and the red mantis assassin for that matter). They are supposed to be rogues but far deadlier, in truth they are not expecially if confronted with the unchained rogue.
So, here's a few ideas about making assassins what they should be:
-Full BAB advancement
-Ability to reduce healing, progressively increasing its effect until it caps at stopping healing for some time
-Easier time causing conditions especially when using sneak attack
-Better at causing bleeding effects.
-Access to a few spell like abilities related to stealth, disguise and causing damage in the appropriate way (not casting fireballs obviously, something subtle as casting poison but without components)
This way assassins could really become worthy adversaries for PCs and be something players of evil PCs would look foward to upgrade their characters into.
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Counterpoint: Most prestige classes should not need to exist at all, much like archetypes.
A Prestige Class can generally be condensed down to 3-5 Feats appropriate to a specific class or style. There is literally no need for them in most cases.
==Aelryinth
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I'm waiting for the day that Slayer gets a Red Mantis Assassin archetype that gets Bloodrager/Paladin spell progression.
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Here's how to fix the Assassin: Forget it exists and play a Slayer instead.
Here's how to fix the Assassin: Forget it exists and play a Slayer instead.
This.
Prestige classes are a dead design space and assassins are a bit too specific of a character concept to design a whole class around. You can build an assassin-type character with almost any class that's good at stabbing things.
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Counterpoint: Most prestige classes should not need to exist at all, much like archetypes.
A Prestige Class can generally be condensed down to 3-5 Feats appropriate to a specific class or style. There is literally no need for them in most cases.
==Aelryinth
Prestige classes have existed in their current form since the end of the last century. And they existed even before that. It's supposed to be a sort of "prize build" you can get if you build a certain way and personally I think it's fun to have something to aim to outside normal class progression. Yes, most prestige classes today fail to impress and feel superfluous, but that doesn't mean they are "dead design sapece", it just means they were not really done right, as prestige classes should allow characters to do things their parent classes could not in a specialized kind of way.
Paizo HATES Prestige Classes. They are only there because of legacy.
And they despise Multiclassing.
They are traumatised from 3.x where munchkin minmaxboards were overflowing with Level 10 characters with 8 different classes. In this vibe. They went HARD against this.
Imho much too hard.
Instead of bulding your own take on a build, you take the archetype designed for the role you envision. They are significantly more powerful that what you can create yourself via Prestice Classes and/or Multiclassing.
If it's just a 'job', you can build the character you want to do the job with feats and/or an archetype.
No need for a PrC.
A PrC, in Pathfinder, is explicitly tied to an ORGANIZATION. So, 'assassin' will never be a current PrC, since it's just a job. all of the PF PrC's are organization-based and extremely specialized, such that they generally lose useful abilities that are of more interest to an adventurer.
That's quite intentional. PrC'ing is now a sign of organizational loyalty, instead of power-gaming.
3E, PrC'ing was 'what you were supposed to do'. Nobody was supposed to take a base class to 20. PrC's were designed to be taken, not ignored.
Completely different reasons behind the design and their existence.
==Aelryinth
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If it's just a 'job', you can build the character you want to do the job with feats and/or an archetype.
No need for a PrC.
A PrC, in Pathfinder, is explicitly tied to an ORGANIZATION. So, 'assassin' will never be a current PrC, since it's just a job. all of the PF PrC's are organization-based and extremely specialized, such that they generally lose useful abilities that are of more interest to an adventurer.
That's quite intentional. PrC'ing is now a sign of organizational loyalty, instead of power-gaming.
3E, PrC'ing was 'what you were supposed to do'. Nobody was supposed to take a base class to 20. PrC's were designed to be taken, not ignored.
Completely different reasons behind the design and their existence.
==Aelryinth
This isn't entirely true. There are plenty of PrCs (pretty much all of the Core PrCs, Pit Fighter, Bloatmage, Battle Herald, and Master Spy) which aren't tied to any organization. There are also more that are only vaguely attached to an organization (Technomancer, Pain Taster, and plenty from Golarion-specific material books).
Just because many PrCs have Golarion organizations attached to them, that is just how they are relevant in a particular setting. I don't think that defines Paizo's design or development goals with PrCs.
You'll find that most of the early Paizo PrC's are from 3e material. Bloatmages are basically found in Kaer Maga, and came from a 3E AP. Ditto the Pit Fighter. Not sure about the Master Spy. Pain Taster is from the Drow book, which was 3e.
lots of early, marginal PrC's were from AP's on the 3e paradigm, which they've now moved officially away from.
And the Core PrC's are just carry overs from the 3e SRD as well, of course.
I mean, one great PrC was the Chevaliar (?) for Cayden Calidean, which Paizo tries to ignore even exists now, given how great the benefits are for a 3 level class. Seriously, look at the thing. Smite, immune/fear, good saves...just a great 3 level dip class for Cayden's happy fellows.
So, they've really switched focus on PrC's in recent years, and you'll notice that the ones that come out really tend to be centered on organizations (or areas, like the bloatmage) and are meant to be taken for purposes of FLAVOR, not pure power.
Things like the Battle Herald are classic attempts to introduce a class that is a hybrid (fighter/bard in case of the herald) or 'theurgic' classes, to satisfy the multiclasser in all of us. Most of them failed to satisfy, because everyone wanted all of both classes, not a sub-par combo that didn't get all the best stuff as fast (i.e. why Mystic Theurge doesn't dominate any power rankings without SLA abuse).
==Aelryinth
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Even early entry MTs weren't topping the charts, they were just popular in PFS.
It's mostly true that PrCs are pure flavor choices now. I would love to make every single character I ever made a Hellknight. It'd make my day. But in almost every case, it's a drop in my numbers, and in many cases, a loss of iconic and useful class abilities. If I'm only taking 2 levels of Hellknight to wear the armor, I'm hardly even a Hellknight. One Smite per day, likely with trash Charisma unless I'm a Paladin or Bloodrager.
And that's another example of Archetypes overshadowing PrCs. If I wanted a Chaos-slaying Knight in shining armor, why am I not an Oath Against Chaos Paladin (Ignoring the LG only restriction)? It gets immunities, spells and saving throws. It stays single classed, gets favored class bonuses, you get a mount or magic sword powers. It's just depressing to take PrCs.
You'll find that most of the early Paizo PrC's are from 3e material. Bloatmages are basically found in Kaer Maga, and came from a 3E AP. Ditto the Pit Fighter. Not sure about the Master Spy. Pain Taster is from the Drow book, which was 3e.
lots of early, marginal PrC's were from AP's on the 3e paradigm, which they've now moved officially away from.
And the Core PrC's are just carry overs from the 3e SRD as well, of course.
I mean, one great PrC was the Chevaliar (?) for Cayden Calidean, which Paizo tries to ignore even exists now, given how great the benefits are for a 3 level class. Seriously, look at the thing. Smite, immune/fear, good saves...just a great 3 level dip class for Cayden's happy fellows.
So, they've really switched focus on PrC's in recent years, and you'll notice that the ones that come out really tend to be centered on organizations (or areas, like the bloatmage) and are meant to be taken for purposes of FLAVOR, not pure power.
==Aelryinth
I suppose the 3E part is fair. But most of these (I would say near half) have had Pathfinder updates.
And the Chevalier is great. I (possibly stupidly) used it on a PC to go Iroran Paladin + Monk + Chevalier -> Champion of Irori.
And yeah, I think a big thing is that the RPG line hasn't touched PrCs since the APG. And when Golarion specific PrCs are made, they are obviously going to have some basis in-world. It makes for more interesting fluff and inclusion.
I guess the design team is moving away from PrCs (and the player companion line to a lesser extent) and more into new archetypes and feat chains, which is why we see fewer and fewer non-organization PrCs.
If I wanted a Chaos-slaying Knight in shining armor, why am I not an Oath Against Chaos Paladin (Ignoring the LG only restriction)? It gets immunities, spells and saving throws. It stays single classed, gets favored class bonuses, you get a mount or magic sword powers. It's just depressing to take PrCs.
Unchained Prestige. Do it, Paizo! Even if it was just keeping Favored Class Bonuses, it would be an improvement...
Counterpoint: Most prestige classes should not need to exist at all, much like archetypes.
A Prestige Class can generally be condensed down to 3-5 Feats appropriate to a specific class or style. There is literally no need for them in most cases.
==Aelryinth
While I agree on prestige classes- they are far, far too grandfathered in from D&D at this point, I thought that was largely due to archetypes.
I always thought of archetypes as an interesting way to tailor your class to the play style you wanted. Little need to go dipping into other classes for abilities when you can get them by trading away some minor abilities of your current class. If you make it purely feats, then they will be dumped into the 'flavorful and powerful, but I am not taking a feat chain' folder.
Anyway, back to prestige classes, I would salvage the idea by removing them from the system of regular class advancedment entirely. An entirely different tracks of progession seperate from class and feats; a slot for 'prestige ranks' basically. A lot of prestige classes can basically be reduced to this already- who takes more than 4 levels of shadowdancer? Even when they do enjoy prestige classes. Just simplify them, keep the prerequisites, retweak the abilities under the assumption they are just minor extra, and kaboom.
So just having a side thing that gives a few extra, often flavorful powers seems better than multiclassing in this system.