Hello Ive got a White Mage Arcanist of Asmodeus. I going the the counterspell exploit an the greater version.. If i pick up Ordered Mind feat what is the difference? or get improved counterspell? not sure the differences or the reasoning for the multi feats.
1-Whats the pro an cons .. Ordered Mind an Improved Counter spell?
2-An how do the feats work with the exploit?
From what I see, Ordered Mind would be better as it only requires you spend a spell of equal level or higher, whereas Improved Counterspell requires spells one level higher than that being cast.
The trade-off appears to be in the DC to identify the spell. Using improved counterspell requires a spellcraft check DC:(15+spell level) where as Ordered Mind requires DC:(20+spell level)
As for the exploit, if you take Improved Counterspell with it, you will require a lower DC than if you take Ordered Mind. It appears that taking the exploit and Ordered Mind would be a waste. Conversely, if you don't mind waiting until level 7 and having a DC that is 5 higher than normal, you can just take Ordered Mind and save yourself the exploit for something different.
True .. but exploit is an immediate action. Ordered Mind is a feat that changes the variable on a counterspell.
Ordered Mind makes it so you don't have to roll the dispel check. Exploit an Improved you have to roll Dispel Check.
Does Ordered Mind allow to me to used it in place of the Exploit check? or is it for ready action only?
I know i'm getting techincal but timing of action an abilities usable on actions can matter in a fight. Not sure which is used where?
also if i take improved counterspell an get Parry spell can i use that with Exploit an Ordered Mind?
I am not overly familiar with counterspelling, and I didn't see that bit about the exploit being an immediate. This may seem redundant but I am just musing a bit.
When doing a normal counterspell, you have to ready an action, identify the spell being cast, and have that same spell prepared for the day. If those conditions are met, you negate the opponents spell by spending your casting of that same spell.
The Improved Counterspell feat allows you to spend a spell of the same school, one level higher, when doing a regular counterspell. This way you have a bit more versatility.
Ordered Mind is similar to Improved Counterspell in that it increases the DC by 5, but decreases the level of spell require for the dispel by 1.
All of these methods require a readied action and so long as you meet the requirements after identifying the spell being cast, it is automatically dispelled. No dispel roll required.
The exploit allows you you to, as an immediate action, counter a spell by identifying it as normal, but you can spend any spell so long as it is one level higher than the one being dispelled. Or, if you have the spell being cast prepared, you can spend it and gain a +5 to the check. For this benefit you have to make the dispel check. This basically acts as a spontaneously cast dispel magic.
As a GM I would say that you can use the exploit and the feats together, but you would still have to make a dispel check as you are getting to do this as an immediate action. There has to be a trade off for balance.
In this way, Improved Counterspell would be useless in conjunction with the exploit, as the exploit basically does what improved counterspell does but without the restriction of spell school.
I would rule that Ordered Mind allows you to increase the identify DC to decrease the spell level required to dispel. You still need to make the dispel check when using this with the exploit. This is rather crappy because now you need to make two checks, one at a higher than normal DC, to dispel. There is a lot of room for failure.
Parry spell would work in either case as it is worded "Whenever you counter a spell".
Ultimately if you use the exploit, you are going to have to make a dispel check and there is little that the feats really do when stacked on top of it.
EDIT: Also, when you get the Greater Dispel exploit, you are doing the same that Ordered Mind would do without increasing the DC to identify the spell. I would say that you just get the exploits and not bother with counterspelling feats. Aim to get other feats that would be of greater benefit.
The best thing to do to counter someone from casting a spell is to hold an action for when they start casting and cast a damage spell on them like Magic Missile. That way they have to make a concentration check. Sometimes that is better than a straight up dispel. Additionally if you add the Toppling Spell meta magic, Magic Missile acts as a trip attack. So this way if you hit a caster that is trying to cast, not only does he have to make the concentration check, but if he is tripped, he then has a higher DC to cast from prone...