| Spike_Rs |
I have been looking for a better answer on this.
I have been trying to figure out to see if normal free action reloading of a 1handed firearm can be done.
I have seen arguments for both sides, which against is usually just that it's too OP, but I haven't really seen anyone talk about the wording from 11th level Gunslinger Deed Lightning Reload. (I have seen the FAQ they did for Advanced Firearms making Rapid Reload make reloading an Advanced Firearm, like the Revovler i.e., to a free action reload from move action reload.)
Rapid Reload and alchemical cartridges seem to give one-handed firearms the ability to be reloaded as a free action in RaW thought.
However, Lightning Reload states that if you have both Rapid Reload and Alchemical Cartridges you can only reload a single barrel for free once. It seems to call out, based on the wording, that even having both they can only reload as a free action once.
Lightning Reload (Ex): At 11th level, as long as the Gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she can reload a single barrel of a one-handed or two-handed firearm as a swift action once per round. If she has the Rapid Reload feat or is using an alchemical cartridge (or both), she can reload a single barrel of the weapon as a free action each round. Furthermore, using this deed does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
If it was meant to be done as a free action plainly if you have both Rapid Reload and Alchemical Cartridges, then why does the Lightning Reload deed say that even if you have both (Rapid Reload & Alchemical Cartridges,) you can only reload a single barrel of a one-handed firearm as a free action once per round? As it does not call out just two-handed, it just says the weapon, which implies one-handed & two-handed firearms.
I'm honestly just trying to find out for Society Organized Play (but I didn't really see a rules section on Society, only in the normal Pathfinder boards here,) and it seems just enough contradictory to merit that you aren't supposed to be able to reload as a free action normally for early firearms (seeing how they specifically FAQ'ed Rapid Reload for Advanced Firearms.)
| Snowblind |
The reason they don't note that for 1 handed firearms it's worse than useless is probably because it's frankly not worth the page space. Two Handed weapons get use out of it, and no weird rules interactions happen when you use typical one handed firearms (it's just pointless). Tossing in a bunch of unnecessary reminder text to explain that spending grit on free action reloads when you already have free action reloads doesn't do anything ends up being a complete waste of space.
Besides, the Design team knows how optimized gunslingers work. Double Barrel weapons were errata'd because the typical interpretation was that you could get double your normal shots per round. Doing so relied on free action reloads. When they errata'd away this issue, they didn't say "Oh hey, you don't actually have the ability to reload a firearm 10 times a round because you can't do it as a free action so double barrel firearms are fine". They said "Ok, double barrel weapons work like this now". That's a pretty sure sign that the way the Design team intended for it to work is that Alchemical Rounds+Rapid Reload+1 handed gun=free action reloads.
| Spike_Rs |
It doesn't cost a grit to do it, though. You just need to have a grit.
Like with the Deft Shootist grit feat. Doesn't cost a grit but you need to have the one grit.
It just seems odd that they wouldn't make the clarification when they call out having both still only allows once per round with the weapon, instead of saying, "If you have both you can only free action reload once per round with a two-handed firearm."
Why not make the distinction for that part if it was meant to be done as a free action normally for one-handed firearms if you have both?
I thought the double barrel reloading was stated that way because they don't want you doing the same free action twice in a row.
Meaning twice in a row like:
1:shoot both barrels at once.
2:reload barrel as free action.
3:reload barrel as free action.
4:shoot both barrels at once.
They have pretty much made clear that doing the same free action right after having just done that same free action is not allowed.
| Spike_Rs |
True for the case if one-handed firearm reloading is supposed to be a free action normally if you have both RR and Alch Carts.
It just seems odd to me that they wouldn't change that one line to only say two-handed firearms can only be free action reload once per round if you have both. Especially how then it would make it more useless with Musket Master's deed Fast Musket. Why I stated early firearms for this topic, because they clarified for Advanced Firearms with Rapid reload.
But for Society Organized Play it is allowed to do free action normally if you have both RR(specific firearm) and Alch Carts?
| thejeff |
True for the case if one-handed firearm reloading is supposed to be a free action normally if you have both RR and Alch Carts.
It just seems odd to me that they wouldn't change that one line to only say two-handed firearms can only be free action reload once per round if you have both. Especially how then it would make it more useless with Musket Master's deed Fast Musket. Why I stated early firearms for this topic, because they clarified for Advanced Firearms with Rapid reload.
But for Society Organized Play it is allowed to do free action normally if you have both RR(specific firearm) and Alch Carts?
Absolutely.
The problem is word count. Starting to list all the exceptions bloats quickly. For little purpose, since all they'd be saying is it doesn't do anything beyond what you can already do.
It does seem to give two-handed firearms a free reload, even without both (or one & Fast Musket), which is technically useful.
| Spike_Rs |
Spike_Rs wrote:True for the case if one-handed firearm reloading is supposed to be a free action normally if you have both RR and Alch Carts.
It just seems odd to me that they wouldn't change that one line to only say two-handed firearms can only be free action reload once per round if you have both. Especially how then it would make it more useless with Musket Master's deed Fast Musket. Why I stated early firearms for this topic, because they clarified for Advanced Firearms with Rapid reload.
But for Society Organized Play it is allowed to do free action normally if you have both RR(specific firearm) and Alch Carts?
Absolutely.
The problem is word count. Starting to list all the exceptions bloats quickly. For little purpose, since all they'd be saying is it doesn't do anything beyond what you can already do.
It does seem to give two-handed firearms a free reload, even without both (or one & Fast Musket), which is technically useful.
But, they do it all the time for errata to clarify things, such as when something like this issue gets brought up.
But that is true on the part of no Alch Cart. Like below quote. Which like below says about no Alch Cart even for one-handed firearm. But still weird using stated wording for them both for only allowing once per round if you are allowed to do it free if you have both normally to get free reload with one-handed firearm.Also it let's one reload a round be done without using a cartridge reducing miss fire. So a miss fire only on a 1 on the first to third shot based on if they are two weapon fighting. It is also for the occasion that a one handed gunslinger needs to use a two handed firearm.
That is true on not using Alch Cart. And for if you had a second gun and then dropped it so you could then be able to reload the main one-handed firearm.
But it still seems weird to state it that way when they seem to try to avoid, or fix it when something like that comes up/being pointed out. Maybe because of this topic thread they may adjust that line. Which then that would make it clearer for those who think it doesn't work that RR and Alch Carts give one-handed firearms normal free action reloading.
and then why still not state it better as you would most likely have both RR and Alch Carts if you're doing one-handed firearm anyways. Level 11 is already so late in the game when you would already be free action reloading before then with a one-handed firearm... ehhh.
But also, this was about trying to make more clear that RR & Alch Carts do give free action reloads and not about Lightning Reload being usless. I just want to make that clear. lqtm
Also, "lqtm" = laugh(ing) quietly to myself.