|
8 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
|
I searched and didn't see that this was asked before. Some relevant text from the spell:
Quote: You create a rolling sphere of churning water that can engulf those it strikes...
They gain cover against attacks from outside the aqueous orb but are considered entangled by its churning currents...
It calls out two conditions:
Quote: Entangled
The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) or lose the spell.
Quote: Engulf (Ex)
The creature can engulf creatures in its path as part of a standard action. It cannot make other attacks during a round in which it engulfs. The creature merely has to move over its opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Targeted creatures can make attacks of opportunity against the creature, but if they do so, they are not entitled to a saving throw against the engulf attack. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity can attempt a Reflex save to avoid being engulfed—on a success, they are pushed back or aside (target’s choice) as the creature moves forward. Engulfed opponents gain the pinned condition, are in danger of suffocating, are trapped within the creature’s body until they are no longer pinned, and may be subject to other special attacks from the creature. The save DC is Strength-based.
So, does the 'engulfed' in the spell description actually refer to the engulf ability, or is it just descriptive fluff?
Furthermore, if creatures are just entangled, can they attack a foe outside from within an aqueous orb? They get cover from outside attacks, is the cover just 1-way, or would any opponents attacked by the engulfed creature also gain cover? If they can attack, do they get any further penalties for attacking while 'under water'?
I'd say that engulf is just a fluffy word used to encompass all the actual effects, which include entanglement, cover against attacks, and 2d6 nonlethal damage each round.
The way I'm reading this, nowhere does it say they gain cover, though it would be perfectly reasonable to give them cover because of the fighting in water rules.
The second sentence of the quote says that they gain cover from outside attacks. I'm just wondering if 1) they get to attack, 2) the opponents on the outside gain cover too.
Fighting in water applies different modifiers, perhaps the 'off balance' should apply if they do get to make attacks.
I think at the very least it should apply cover if you get to attack those outside of it. Otherwise a clever aquatic caster could use it as a buff, which it is not intended to be used as.
I think that it's implied that you need to make a check to escape the orb before doing basically anything else. However I agree that it's not explicitly stated in the rules. I would tentatively allow you to attack with cover penalties if the orb hasn't moved for a turn, as it would represent you managing to gain your senses in what would otherwise be an moving underwater hamster ball. Good question!
Good call.
Water breathing + ablative barrier + freedom of movement
might make for a pretty good combination, it effectively would turn your aqueous orb in a steed, carting you around the battlefield while providing cover.
Somehow I don't think this is intended. ;)
This spell is super muddy. A prime example of a poorly written rule. I will FAQ.
My personal take based on the RAW is that anything in the path is engulfed, entangled & subject to the rules for holding breath/drowning (as per suffocation from engulf + being wholly submerged). With the only concern being should you make the intuitive leap that the spell's reflex save rules override the general rule for engulf that uses a strength based save and shunts aside those who pass it.
However, it wouldn't be the first time a sloppy writer used a rules charged term like engulf as part of descriptive text unintentionally. Hence I will FAQ it.
Also, I wonder if this can be used to destroy vampires? Does that still happen after three rounds of submersion in this rules set?
#toolazytocheck
Engulf is specifically a creature ability. Aqueous Orb is not a creature.
dragonhunterq wrote: Engulf is specifically a creature ability. Aqueous Orb is not a creature. I tend to lean that way as well, but that still doesn't answer whether someone can attack when they are inside an aqueous orb. If they are only 'entangled' then they should be able to, but they can't move even though entangled doesn't prevent movement, and they are taking damage from constantly churning inside the orb.
Frankly, 'entangled' seems like the wrong condition to apply.
Hideous Laughter.
-Then- Aqueous Orb.
Yeah, I've seen that suggested before. Nasty combo.
my heavens oracle color sprays and then orbs.
_Ozy_ wrote: dragonhunterq wrote: Engulf is specifically a creature ability. Aqueous Orb is not a creature. I tend to lean that way as well, but that still doesn't answer whether someone can attack when they are inside an aqueous orb. If they are only 'entangled' then they should be able to, but they can't move even though entangled doesn't prevent movement, and they are taking damage from constantly churning inside the orb.
Frankly, 'entangled' seems like the wrong condition to apply. Spells only do what they say they do, so while within the orb you gain cover from external attacks, and you can attack with penalties from being entangled (it is not unreasonable to apply penalties for fighting underwater). Amusingly, opponents outside the orb do not gain cover from you.
The entangled condition itself doesn't prevent you from moving. The spell itself prevents you from simply moving out of it. You need to make a reflex save to escape. you are trapped until then.
dragonhunterq wrote: Engulf is specifically a creature ability. Aqueous Orb is not a creature. grappling is a creature ability as well, yet black tentacles can grapple. aqueous orb engulfs.
Master of Shadows wrote: dragonhunterq wrote: Engulf is specifically a creature ability. Aqueous Orb is not a creature. grappling is a creature ability as well, yet black tentacles can grapple. aqueous orb engulfs. The issue is that the engulfed ability applies the pinned condition to the character, which would supercede pretty much every single entangled condition making the entangled condition completely superfluous.
That's why I lean towards 'engulf' being descriptive fluff in the spell instead of activating the engulf ability.
I don't necessarily disagree, of true it was a poor word choice for the author, the reason I hit the FAQ button
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
