| 17 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
And by extension, other classes with Ki Pools. Unchained Monks, Rogues with the Ki Pool Talent, and future or 3rd Party options (Ex DSP's Stalker).
There are two pieces of somewhat contradictory evidence here.
For: "This section introduces monk vows, which any user of ki can take to increase his ki pool."
Against: However, Monks also must trade out Still Mind to gain access to the Vows. It seems somewhat odd that an ability that implies it is available to all Ki using classes also requires the trading of an ability only the Monk 9and Unchained Monk) have access to.
I think this is a good FAQ candidate, unless someone has something more definitive than those two things to add?
(No, the fact that its name is "Monk Vows" does not count as evidence.)
Since they need to give up something(still mind) The ninja is unable to take them alone.
Although a monk ninja could. The advancement of ki pool also directly says monk levels, and they share a ki pool.
So a ninja could benefit from it, but would need monk levels to benefit.
Yes, but Monk Ninjas lose Still Mind.
Better to not be a Monk if you have a vow.
Keep in mind that writers do try to account for future content when writing up new stuff. Just because no other paizo-published class can use it now does not mean that no other class could ever use it in the future, or that it could not be accessed via third-party content.
Way I read it, the vows anticipate that any character with a class or prestige class (or combination) that grants the still mind ability and a ki pool could utilise the vows. The fact that nothing published by paizo enables a character to use them without monk levels is ultimately irrelevant. Perhaps some third-party content will work with it, perhaps a future archetype or whole new class will work with it. The vows were simply written to accommodate that possibility.
Similarly, a monk that takes an archetype that replaces still mind (there are several) cannot take the monk vows even if they have a ki pool. Well, I mean they could vow not to do x or y, but would not be able to use the rules to gain a mechanical benefit.
If you want to be really finicky about it, you could argue that the text requires you to have at least 1 level in monk to be able to take the vows, even if you somehow get still mind from another source, but I think it would take a very pedantic GM to rule it that way. It seems to assume that the character taking it would be a monk, but as far as the requisites go, the only requisites I can see are that you have a ki pool and the still mind class feature.
As I understood it, the vows do not trade it still mind the same way other archetypal abilities do, so ninjas and other ki users can use them, even monk archetypes that trade it out. But Ymmv, and it does seem odd that only one (two counting unchained) class gives something up for it.
Bumping this because I think it's a good quick FAQ candidiate.
It's a bit more ambiguous than that (though I agree with the conclusion). It's not an archetype, exactly, and it does specifically say Monks trade it out, not other classes, and the wording seems odd ("any user of ki" when it only applies to Monks in that interpretation).
If nothing else, it's worth clarifying for Unchained Monks whether that "any user of Ki" translates to "any Monk" at least.
I don't see any game balance reason why they shouldn't so I would allow it, although I acknowledge your point that it is illegal by RAW.
I don't see any game balance reason why they shouldn't so I would allow it, although I acknowledge your point that it is illegal by RAW.
Well it is legal, and not legal at the same time, thus the FAQ request.
Ninjas can "take" anything they want. If you can't find them, how can you stop them from taking whatever they want?