Hello! I am about to start running CotCT and I have some doubts. I am a rookie GM with a tenuous grasp of the game mechanics when it comes to balancing encounters and calculating appropiate EL for the party and such, which is worrying because I only have three players. But that's not really the issue. I would like some (any) advice on how to run this campaign, because I am feeling a little lost here.
My biggest issue so far is with Gaedren Lamm and the background traits. The whole Old Fishery thing is over in a minute or two and never mentioned again, and no resolution is provided for the background traits. Does a framed PC manage to clear their name, and if so, to go back to his college or temple? Does a PC with the Missing Child find said child? If I know my players, they are going to want closure for these things. I know it's my job as a GM to introduce these things in the campaign, but I don't know how and when it's appropiate.
Traits like Love Lost, Drug Addict and Unhappy Childhood are more complicated. I can't think of any way of giving a PC closure if they pick any of these traits. After all, their loved one is still dead, the drug addict either recovered or died, and a former child slave has already moved on with their life.
I appreciate any advice you can give me about running CotCT in general, and about the trait thing in particular. Thank you.
The DM I'm a player for extended the Role of Gaedren well beyond the old fishery (very fun)look for Inspectre for some inspiration. He also used scenes in between the books to drive individual plot lines forward.
For framed I wouldn't just leave it with Gaedren killed whoever. I killed him. Story over. I'd expand it through the 6 books. Maybe leave a trail of evidence that he needs to follow. Maybe someone hired Gaedren to kill who ever.
Missing Child, Pick someone that has her Maybe togomar(ewww).
Leave a bread trail of clues for the PC to follow only to have to be dragged away by the next emergency.
Yeah, the beginning is definitely the weakest part of Curse of the Crimson Throne - they have all of this build-up for Gaedren Lamm and then immediately throw him under the bus so that they can move everything on to the AP's meta-plot.
Unfortunately there's no official solution to this as far as I know, so you've only got three choices - you can just accept that those campaign traits are basically garbage and just shrug and move on, you can try to work the traits into the existing material and bring them to a relatively quick end, or you write your own material and shoe-horn it in somehow.
The last option is probably the best option, although you are new to DMing and creating your own new material out of thin air is difficult. The other issue you would need to deal with is XP, if you are using it - the AP assumes a certain pace in its events as to how fast people are getting XP, so if you had your own material in without taking something out of the prepared material, your players will be somewhat higher level than the AP expects. A couple thousand XP is not going to make any difference, but if you are making a lot of your own sidetreks you will need to figure out a solution.
One method is to simply level people up at certain points in the story - the early books tend to be split up into 6-8 chapters, and it's expected that the players gain about 3 levels per book, so one level every 2-3 chapters of the book should be about right. The other option is to do what I did and put them on the Slow XP track, but if you're going to do that, you need a *lot* of custom material to feed them enough XP to make up the difference from the AP's assumed Medium XP track.
The second option, to provide closure by wrapping the traits up in the short term, can be relatively easy to accomplish. Gaedren apparently enjoys torturing children down in his private quarters, so the child could be there, about to be eaten by Gobblegut when the PCs burst in (this would also explain why Gaedren was still there, and not either up in the Fishery itself or away on business). The framed person could find evidence amongst all of Gaedren's stuff to clear his/her name.
Alternatively, Devargo is a good source of trouble if you want to extend the traits beyond Gaedren's death - perhaps Gaedren kidnapped the child on Devargo's behalf.
Also, Devargo can forge some evidence to get the framed person back in with their organization.
The drug addict is probably going to want nothing to do with the Shiver-making Devargo - perhaps someone this PC knows has gotten in trouble with him, due to their own addictions (drugs *or* gambling *or* prostitutes given the wide spread of stuff available in Eel's End, that are just described and not touched upon further). Or they just saw something related to Devargo's business and now they're in trouble with him for knowing too much.
The PC with the dead lover could find the gravesite in the Grey District disturbed just prior to going into the Dead Warrns - the derro working for Rolth dug up the grave to get some fresh body parts.
As for the former slave, well . . . maybe the slaver who bought him off Gaedren has just arrived back in Korvosa on a ship, and is looking to buy some more slaves, but since Gaedren the usual supplier is now dead, the slaver has to work with either Devargo or just start kidnapping people (this one you'll probably have to make up - I don't think anyone in the AP has a lot of connections to slavers).
Your questions are very good ones, because they are issues that most of us (myself very much included) had to learn about the adventure path simply by running it, rather than having a reference to other DMs who have tried to solve these problems.
Quote: My biggest issue so far is with Gaedren Lamm and the background traits. The whole Old Fishery thing is over in a minute or two and never mentioned again, and no resolution is provided for the background traits. You're right. My solution to this problem, as it tends to be with a lot of story problems in APs, was to write more. Pad out the beginning of the game so that what is written as one session of walking to the Fishery, beating up some thugs, and then taking out Gaedren, is instead played as an actual investigation, that requires the players to actually hit the streets and find out just where exactly Gaedren is and how they can get to him, all the while learning about the horrible things he's done in his life and they can really internalize their reasons for hating him and wanting him dead.
You hit the nail on the head about it being over too quickly, because what that does is it doesn't allow the players to get into the mindset of their character and find their motivation for hunting him. So stretch it out, give it time. You can read HERE and HERE about how some people on this board (myself included) worked to stretch out the intro, and what content we chose to add to make it into a coherent narrative. You may want to do things differently, though, that's up to you.
Quote: Does a framed PC manage to clear their name, and if so, to go back to his college or temple? Does a PC with the Missing Child find said child? If I know my players, they are going to want closure for these things. This is entirely up to you and the player, and is one of the reasons you need to get comfortable with writing your own content, even if you're running a pre-written module or AP. By default, the books don't cover this, as they make no assumptions that a player will take the trait at all, or that they will care to have it resolved. You should talk to your player about that and find out whether they want to resolve this plotline as a character arc, and if so, how. This is entirely in your hands, but it is their character and their story, so it's always good to get an idea of what the player has in mind for their story arc so you can try and play it out. If they want to have nothing to do with their family, and you shove a family reunion into the game, they might not enjoy it.
Ask them, find out what they want, and then write things into the campaign that let it play out. This is what the DM's job is.
Quote: I know it's my job as a GM to introduce these things in the campaign, but I don't know how and when it's appropiate. No one can really answer this but you. Try and think of your campaign as a novel or a movie, and think of what's going on at any given time. You have the option of unloading all the drama early on, and then having the rest of the time to focus on the campaign plot, or you can stretch the player arcs over a long time, and weave them in and out of the narrative of the campaign. There really is no "appropriate" time, it's whenever you think it is most impactful. You could have the "Missing Sibling" trait player find his sibling shortly after he kills Gaedren, sure. But maybe that means you're throwing away the opportunity to use that sibling at a later point in the story. Maybe they show up later allied with an enemy? Who knows, it's up to you. You need to do what you think will be the coolest plot for the players, but HOW and WHEN is completely in your hands.
Quote: I can't think of any way of giving a PC closure if they pick any of these traits This is why you ask the players. Remember, the PCs are not just faceless grey stones moving through a campaign world, they're as much a living part of the story as anything else. Always be thinking in terms of a character arc. The best analogy I can make is Luke Skywalker; At the beginning of the movie, he's a wimpy kid who whines about things. Soon after, he's orphaned when his aunt and uncle die, and this gives him a reason to leave with Obi Wan. Fast forward to the end of the movie, and he's a confident pilot flying a space ship to take down the Death Star. What caused the change in personality? A character arc. A set of events in the story that forced him to face new situations and affected his ideas and opinions about the world.
PCs go through this too. Your players are coming into the game knowing nothing other than that Gaedren did them wrong in the past. They don't know what will happen in the campaign. It's these unknown events that are going to challenge their outlook and affect their priorities. Maybe a Drug Addict uses his habit as a way of coping with the craziness unfolding around him. Maybe by late in the campaign, he's been given a job working for the Guard or the Marines and is saving the city, and doesn't need his drugs anymore because he found a new purpose in life. But remember, it's the players that should be involved in this, not just you. Try coming back to them every few sessions, and asking them how they feel about their character, and how they see the events unfolding affecting that character. It's very possible that the story arc they plan out at level 1, will have been so altered by the events they player has seen that their priorities and their desire for the character's story has changed significantly.
Thank you for your responses and advice! I've gone through some other threads in this boards, as recommended, and it's been very inspiring. Especially Inspectre's alterations.
Although I agree that expanding the Gaedren business so the PCs have to work for it before facing him is the best solution, I don't want to create a whole extended quest before and after the Old Fishery. The reason is that while I can probably write a plot, I'm just terrible at creating creatures, and calculating CRs and all those things, so that's the area where I'm most likely to make serious mistakes and ruining things. So I was thinking about having a little pre-session heavy on the roleplay with each character, detailing how are they daily lives and how whatever Gaedren did to them has affected them. My players are very RP oriented (all three of them are party faces) so I doubt they'll mind waiting for a bit before meeting and getting their hands dirty if I do this.
As for the old man himself, I was thinking maybe two possibilities, depending on how they deal with him.
PLAN A: Gaedren manages to escape or is captured alive, and later becomes the Emperor of Old Korvosa. If he escapes, Kroft offers to use her resources to track him down as long as the party keeps helping the guard, as an additional incentive (just in case the money isn't enough to keep them together). She drops hints here and there about where he might be, until she finally pins him down in Old Korvosa, just in time for the people of Korvosa to burn down the bridges to the island for fear of the plague.
If he is captured alive, he escapes during the chaos resulting from the plague and ends up in Old Korvosa as Emperor. In any casy, when Zellara talks to the PCs at the beginning she is more interested in capturing him than in having him killed.
PLAN B: If the PCs manage to kill Gaedren despite my best efforts, they discover evidence that he was but a part of a bigger operation involving Devargo, who used Gaedren to distribute Shivers, smuggle slaves and whatnot. Once again, if they don't deal with Devargo for good, he ends up as Emperor. I just don't like Pilts very much (although since I have an actor and a bard in the party, if he's the Emperor I could substitute the blood pig thing, which I find pretty gross, for a snuff improv exercise or something like that).
As for the traits, I figured I only had to worry about the ones the players choose. Here's what I have so far.
-Hal-orc bard, CN: Missing child (missing son or daughter)
The bard had a little boy with a noblewoman a long time ago, and since the lady didn't want to raise a bastard one-quarter orc child, he kept him. Gaedren abducted him when he was ten, and it's been two years since then. The child is at the Old Fishery, but he's deeply traumatized and will run away with the rest of the orphans.
Assuming he isn't rescued then, the party will find him again during the riots (maybe with Amin Jalento and the angry mob). I know have an NPC to put in danger as often as I see fit. He can contract the plague and be trapped in Old Korvosa (since that's where the PC lives) when they destroy the bridges, or whatever I can think of.
-Human cleric of Abadar, LN, works as a lawyer: Framed (family honor)
The cleric became a priest of Abadar and a lawyer to help his loved one, but in the end it wasn't enough. The framed person was absolved, but now everyone thinks they're a murderer. They haven't been able to find a job ever since the trial, makes a living by leeching off the PC, and is in the brink of homelessness. Unless the PC can clear their name (which requires both evidence and the testimony of Gaedren or one of his thugs) or find them a steady job and housing, they will turn to a life of crime. If that happens, perhaps the person framed will be one of the captains of the Emperor. Or, if the framed person is a woman (the player hasn't told me the details yet), she could apply for a position in the Grey Maidens.
Of course, in the chaos resulting from the King's death, nobody has time to reopen an old case. Cressida Kroft offers to help speed up the process if asked, as long as the PC keeps working for her, but it's going to take some time either way.
The third player (human urban ranger, NE, works as an actor) hasn't told me yet which trait she's choosing so I have nothing.
I honestly can't tell if it's good or bad or convenient, but at least I came up with something and it's thanks to you people and this board, so thank you!
Quote: I don't want to create a whole extended quest before and after the Old Fishery. The reason is that while I can probably write a plot, I'm just terrible at creating creatures, and calculating CRs and all those things, so that's the area where I'm most likely to make serious mistakes and ruining things. All of the content I sourced for my introduction plotline comes from published sources, with the statblocks for every NPC and enemy already in place. d20PFSRD has a huge page of pre-made statblocks for every type of enemy you could ever possibly need in your game, from a level 1 thug to a high level Wizard Lord. But really, you don't even need any of that. What does an enemy's statblock really mean, especially when that's information that players will never see? Many, many DMs have found it's much more successful to run combats without ever referencing stats for enemies at all. Decide on what would be an adequate challenge level, and then have the enemies conform to that by taking as many hits as you think are required for the enemy to die at a point where it's not running too long, but not too easy either. No player is ever going to complain if the level 1 thug they're fighting takes an extra hit to go down because you want the fight to run a round or two longer.
Don't stress about it so much. If it's building combat encounters that's keeping you from running what you think would be a much better story for the players, then don't run the encounters. Make them roleplay events that allow the players to talk their way through.
Quote: Gaedren manages to escape or is captured alive Quote: If the PCs manage to kill Gaedren despite my best efforts, This is some advice that I have learned over a very long time DMing, and I feel like you're going to learn it when you run this game, so you might as well hear it now:
Never plan for an NPC's death/escape as a part of the story. It doesn't matter how much set-up you do, it doesn't matter how hard you try and push events to an outcome, when you make part of the plot reliant on an NPC being captured alive or escaping, you can almost certainly guarantee that he's gonna die in combat instead. Plans that require a very specific outcome are not a good way to DM.
Instead, don't even think about the outcome. Don't make ANY plans for Gaedren living or dying. They don't matter right now, because what matters right now is that he's alive in the universe and as far as he knows he's going to stay that way. Roll with what happens. If you think the NPC would try to escape in combat, that's fine, but let whatever the players decide the outcome to be, happen. Use that to shape what comes next.
Quote: In any casy, when Zellara talks to the PCs at the beginning she is more interested in capturing him than in having him killed. Do remember that Zellara is dead. She's a ghost, and it's Gaedren who killed her. She may be a nice woman, but what exactly is she going to do with him alive?
Quote: As for the traits, I figured I only had to worry about the ones the players choose. Here's what I have so far. I really am not sure I like what you're trying to do with the traits. They just don't make a lot of sense from a game perspective. I'll try and explain why;
First, I think you've oversold Gaedren to your players. He's a small cog in the wheel of the city, and even though his cruel acts have all touched the players in some way, and in a significant enough quantity that it shaped the rest of the PC's life since then, I am firmly in the camp of belief that PCs shouldn't come into the game with Gaedren on their mind. Hell, they shouldn't even come into the game expecting that they'll be dealing with Gaedren at all, or any time soon. Because the more you sell that to them, the more it rushes the intro segment and causes the rest of the plot to be massively disconnected.
When a character comes into CoCT, Gaedren should be the last thing on their mind. A thing that happened to them, and was horrible for what it is, but far enough in the past that they have had to move on and create an actual life for themselves in the city despite their past tragedy. If your players arrive session 1 with a PC who's thought process is "Man I hate Gaedren, I need to go find Gaedren", it creates a 1-dimensional character who's motivation for everything is going to vanish as soon as the guy dies.
Rather, have them make characters who exist as a part of the city and have their own lives and desires and thoughts, while the events with Gaedren bubble in the background, something they haven't thought about in a long time, so when you introduce Zellara, that's the first time they've even thought about Gaedren in a while, and their past trauma is rekindled.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Arares wrote: Zellara talks to the PCs at the beginning she is more interested in capturing him than in having him killed. I kinda like this. Maybe it sets up a lot of things. Including maybe alittle Zellara payback. Maybe Zellara going to try to posses G-man.
I will agree and disagree with Askren. Planning ahead is a good thing to do, as it lets you set up foreshadowing and think some things out ahead of time so you're not scrambling nor making something up off the cuff that you regret later. What you need to avoid is becoming attached to any one particular sequence of events, because it's not just killing NPCs that you have to worry about - players will do things you never anticipated. The number one rule to keep in mind while DMing is "No plan survives contact with the PCs".
They will kill NPCs, even when you tell them not to or by accident (I'm going to knock him out! Ooops, I crit'd.) They will ignore all of your hints to the bad guy's lair and go on some random boar hunt instead. They will befriend the random shopkeep who you don't even have a name for, so you call him Biff or Bob or something when asked for his name. You need to learn to roll with it, and more importantly, identify opportunities to feed and spin off from what they're doing, either leading them back around (subtly) to the main plot, or just going off on whatever tangent they're interested in.
Focus your planning on the PCs, not the NPCs. You'll always be able to make another villain. If you think that your players would enjoy the plot twist of Gaedren Lamm escaping from prison or coming back from the dead, then figure out a way for it to happen and roll with it if your players do something to prevent that outcome. But be careful thwarting whatever it is that your players want to do – a few setbacks make for a good story, but if you reverse their few victories too often they will start to feel like nothing they do matters.
It can also send the wrong message – if your PCs capture Gaedren Lamm and hand him over to the city guard for sentencing, and then he just escapes, your players will rightly assume that the city guard is incompetent and corrupt (which it arguably is). Your players are not Batman – they will not keep capturing the bad guy over and over in the hopes that this time, the system will work. No, they will murder him, chop his body into pieces, and then bury those pieces in the four corners of the earth, and kill any guardsman who tries to stop them (because they’re obviously corrupt guards on the take!)
Now, planting the seeds of not trusting the system and solving your problems with your own two hands adventurer-style can be a good thing – eventually your players will be outlaws that have to flee Korvosa, unless you’re willing to rewrite things *substantially*. But considering they need to work with the city guard in Book One you can’t go whole hog on the “city guard can’t be trusted” train right away unless, as mentioned, you’re willing to do some substantial rewrites. Even if he escapes in Book Two, expect for Kroft to hear no end of grief about it.
Regardless, your split plan sounds good more or less. The important thing is that Pilts, who you don’t like, is replaced by either Lamm or Devargo, assuming either one of them survives. And if not, meh . . . bring on Emperor Biff? And either way, Lamm has somewhat more connection to the story, either as a prisoner and eventual escapee, or as part of another cog in Devargo’s machine – there’s always a bigger fish for the party to fry, after all.
We've been making Inspectre's life a living hell!
Recent threads in Curse of the Crimson Throne
|
