Once each round
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Produce flame is not a touch spell, and therefore does not use the held charge rules of touch spells. Furthermore, even if some other spell (like frostbite) was being used, last I heard it's not a given that it discharges automatically when you grapple someone (or get grappled).
Produce flame is not a touch spell, and therefore does not use the held charge rules of touch spells. Furthermore, even if some other spell (like frostbite) was being used, last I heard it's not a given that it discharges automatically when you grapple someone (or get grappled).
I understood that someone just touching you would discharge the frostbite.
Produce flame is not subject to normal held charge rules.
You can use this combo with other touch spells though, because normal touch spells discharge if you touch something, intentionally or not.
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Produce flame can be used as a touch spell spell or ranged touch attack. It says so right in the spell's description.
Mechanically, I do agree that it wouldn't discharge when initiating grapple, but it should discharge while maintaining it to deal unarmed damage. If you are dealing the unarmed damage, I believe that you are effectively touching someone in such case and can discharge the spell's effect.
RAI wise, the whole grappling and discharging spells is a mess. It's worth investigating it through topics a bit.
Adam
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Produce flame is not subject to normal held charge rules.
You can use this combo with other touch spells though, because normal touch spells discharge if you touch something, intentionally or not.
On the other hand, the issue with the rules you cite is that they say "touch anything or anyone", and yet the game does not seem to assume that casters using touch spells have to be naked and airborne in order to keep from automatically discharging the spell the instant they finish casting it.
This seems to imply that the charge is localized to one part of your body that might actually have a chance of not touching anything (such as your hand). Since the Pathfinder version of the grappled condition still leaves a hand free, it'd be a stretch to conclude that being grappled would auto-discharge the spell. Even so, you take a -4 to grappling if (as the initiator) you don't have two free hands to devote to starting the grapple...
Yeah, it's all a mess.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Produce flame can be used as a touch spell... It says so right in the spell's description.
No, it doesn't.
It says you can try to make a touch attack. That doesn't make it a touch spell.
If you go and look at the rules for touch spells in combat, you'll see where it states it's talking about spells that have a range of "touch". But produce flame has a range of 0 feet, and its effect is to put a flame in your palm. Compare this to... well, basically every offensive touch spell ever, and you'll see the difference.
Produce flame does not have charges that can be held, and does not grant a free touch attempt the round you cast it. It is not a "touch spell".
On the other hand, the issue with the rules you cite is that they say "touch anything or anyone", and yet the game does not seem to assume that casters using touch spells have to be naked and airborne in order to keep from automatically discharging the spell the instant they finish casting it.
If we want to get really flippant, the air itself has molecules in it that you are touching constantly, so only in a complete vacuum can touch spells ever function.
Applying physics to Pathfinder always ends in madness.
But yes, a horrible, horrible mess.
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@Jiggy
Uuuuh. Honestly, I see what you mean. I guess you are right, but my head is gonna explode one day with this rules mess. In either case, whether it's a touch spell or not, I believe it ain't important in the context of this topic. I still do believe it discharges if you maintain grapple to deal damage though. That seems pretty clear cut.
Produce flame is not a touch spell, and therefore does not use the held charge rules of touch spells. Furthermore, even if some other spell (like frostbite) was being used, last I heard it's not a given that it discharges automatically when you grapple someone (or get grappled).I understood that someone just touching you would discharge the frostbite.
They have to touch your hand. If you can grapple someone in spiked armor without becoming holier than papal swiss cheese you can grab the wizard with the funny blue glowing hand without setting it off.
They CAN make a touch attack to hit you with it after that though. Or punch you normally to set it off.