Can someone please explain the zombie magus variant template?

[kevin_video]

In Classic Horrors Revisited

Spoiler:

we learn of the zombie magus. It says it's +1 CR plus caster level. What exactly does that mean? In Godsmouth Heresy, we see a human zombie magus necromancer 1 that's CR 1. To me, that means that's it's like the zombie lord, and it's +1 CR to the total. The only problem is, it's a single level of wizard. That's not enough.

What about a zombie magus fighter 5/wizard 3/eldritch knight 2? What's that CR? What about changing up the storm giant zombie to being a magus? The original version does have spell-like abilities? Is that important? Do SLA count as CL for this template? If so, how about a drider zombie magus? They're CL 6 for sorcerer/cleric spells, but CL 9 for their SLA.

I'm just looking for a little clarity.

[ShiroK]

kevin_video wrote:

In Classic Horrors Revisited ** spoiler omitted **

I'm just looking for a little clarity.

First of all it's a skeletal champion or zombie

lord.

BUT it keep it's caster level (up to 5)

so it should be

10 hit dice skeleton = Cr 5

+ Skeleton Champion = +1 cr total CR6

+Magus = Cr +1 +caster level = for a CR12 total

That said i personally doubt it actually deserves to be cr12

[kevin_video]

But again I have to ask, what caster level do you go by? The SLA or the the class? Does a drow fighter 5 need the template? Would it get access to their SLA? This is why I added the drider. Need complete clarity.

[ShiroK]

From what it says ...sure if you WANTED use something that had spell like abilities and keep them as a Zombie / Skeleton you COULD add the template and raise their CR by an additional 1+CL (most likely =+1+HD) .... Same way they qualify for prestige classes. Since they are "spell casters" and that is all it requires.

Again you would be making stupidly high CR creatures that are actually really bad but ....sure.

That said a player generally can't make variant undead so it's mostly a GM tool to make interesting enemies ....so they can fudge the CR to bring it more into balance.

Again you CAN but it's like making the super stacked template monster....CR 20 ...one hit dice ....dies to a level 1 paladin smite lucky hit ....not a good CR20 encounter. (probably not even a good CR5 encounter)

Incidentally making it a drider pops it up to a laughable Cr 27 encounter with basically a slightly tougher 19 HD fight ....same Drider as a lich however is only a CR 20 encounter i believe off the top of my head.

[kevin_video]

See, this is why I'm confused. I can definitely understand it only being +1 CR on top of the +1 CR for being a zombie/skeleton lord. The issue is I really do need to know the CR because I'm currently writing an adventure for publication, and the necromancer is reviving an adult black dragon. They have CL 14 for SLA, and 3rd for sorcerer spells. They're originally CR 11. There's no way, in my mind, that they could possibly be double the CR in zombie magus form their regular form. Something's just not right.

[ShiroK]

Just make it a Ravener instead?

[kevin_video]

ShiroK wrote:

Just make it a Ravener instead?

Can't. Dragon's already dead. Necromancer's bringing it back.

But still, that doesn't help anyone making a storm giant or drider.

[kevin_video]

So, according to James Jacobs, the zombie magus is just written poorly. It's a variant zombie lord template. That said, he just wants that template to fade away into the ether, everyone to forget it, and just use zombie lord for martial and spellcasting classes. At least, that's how I interpreted it.