You missed this:
The caster level of all spells in a staff must be the same, and no staff can have a caster level of less than 8th, even if all the spells in the staff are low-level spells.
So:
400*1*8 + 300*1*8*.5 = 3,200 + ,1200 = 4,400gp.
(.5 because of 2 charges per use)
That's the rock-bottom most permissive cost I can deduce from the RAW.
Note that that is cost of the materials. It would cost double that to purchase one, so 8,800. That's only a difference of 800 gp from the book price for that staff.
Also remember that Paizo has repeatedly said that the formulas for creating your own magic items are just guidelines and that many of their items are priced higher or lower than the formulas would suggest. This is mostly because they feel the item is properly balanced at the listed price rather than the formula price.
They also recommend that if you make a custom item, you should compare to existing items BEFORE you try to use the formulas. This is to help you preserve game balance.
So even a permissive GM should probably take their advice and price it at the book price (8,000gp). Change that price at your own risk.
That said, it's pretty weak. Most staves are. In my experience, just about every time I've giving out a staff in a treasure hoard, the players immediately sell it and split the gold because they're always so overpriced for what they actually do that just about everybody agrees that selling them is best for the whole party.
So, at least when it comes to staves, I tend to be more willing to ignore Paizo's suggested prices. You might want to let this go for a little less (to be permissive) but not much less - it's up to the GM, of course.
It seems very strange to me that crafter level would effect the price of a staff when it has nothing to do with its power (because they work on users' caster level and DC, not the creators).Close but not quite:
Staves use the wielder's ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it's higher than the caster level of the staff.
So pricing based on the staff's CL is actual reasonable.
Additionally: "He can also imbue one staff with a portion of his power so long as one or more of the spells cast by the staff is on his spell list", so how much would this staff cost to buy at magicmart with a permissive GM, and could a cleric effectively use and charge it:
Magic missle (not on oracle list) (1 charge)
detect magic (on oracle list) (10 charges)
The market price would be 400 * 8 * 1 + 300 * 8 * 1 / 10 = 3440.
At least one Paizo dev is of the opinion that staff spells should never take more than three charges. Just his opinion, of course.
Personally I think the GM should require having it custom-made rather than ruling that every possible staff already exists at the magic-mart, but then you did specify "permissive."
EDIT: The cleric can charge it freely (for a 1st level spell slot) since detect magic is on his spell list. He could use it to cast magic missle but would need to make a DC 20 Use Magic Device check to pretend the spell is on his spell list. (No, UMD would not be enough to let him charge the staff if clerics didn't get detect magic; you can fool the staff into casting but you can't fool it into being recharged.)
Do note that the formula given for staffs is for determining creation cost, not buying price.
The materials cost is subsumed in the cost of creation: 400 gp × the level of the highest-level spell × the level of the caster, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (300 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster), plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities (200 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster). Staves are always fully charged (10 charges) when created.
So the creation cost of a staff with magic missile and detect magic (which uses 10 charges) is 3320gp, or 6640gp to buy.
The market price would be 400 * 8 * 1 + 300 * 8 * 1 / 10 = 3440.
At least one Paizo dev is of the opinion that staff spells should never take more than three charges. Just his opinion, of course.
Personally I think the GM should require having it custom-made rather than ruling that every possible staff already exists at the magic-mart, but then you did specify "permissive."
Detect magic is a 0-level spell, which counts as a spell level of 1/2 for crafting purposes. Not like it makes much of a difference in this case, however.
Thanks all, the main thing I was missing was the minimum caster level 8. I kind of see the purpose of staves now (expanding spell list, saving up/storing spell slots during down time, avoiding AOO in melee) but it seems like there's very little reason to ever use them for spells below level 3. I guess I'll stick with wands for the time being.
Save DCs. Big time. At least for any spell that has saves (let's say, Burning Hands).
Wand of Burning Hands made at CL 8 costs 1 * 8 * 350 = 2,800 gp to get 50 uses of Burning Hands doing 5d4 damage at a save DC of 11 (that never changes).
Staff of Burning Hands mate at CL 8 costs 1 * 8 * 400 = 3,200 gp to get infinite uses of Burning Hands (but only a max of 10 at any one time) doing 5d4 damage at a save DC of whatever your caster save DC is for a level 1 spell (if you're a decent PC caster that save DC should be at least 16 by the time you can afford this staff).
400 extra gold gets you unlimited charges (10 at a time, must be recharged slowly) and gets you a much harder save DC.
(Yes, I know you cannot put just one spell on a staff, it was just a price comparison).
Yes, I know you cannot put just one spell on a staff [....]
I can't find this rule. Where should I be looking?
Yes, I know you cannot put just one spell on a staff [....]I can't find this rule. Where should I be looking?
There isn't one. There may be something like a developers opinion around somewhere (as there is for the number of charges a spell should use, as posted above), but there is no rule about the number of spells a staff can have.
There isn't one. There may be something like a developers opinion around somewhere (as there is for the number of charges a spell should use, as posted above), but there is no rule about the number of spells a staff can have.Yes, I know you cannot put just one spell on a staff [....]I can't find this rule. Where should I be looking?
Damn, it looks like that's true. I can still very clearly remember reading that somewhere but I sure can't find it, not in the PFSRD or in the 3.5 SRD. I don't know where I read that, but I guess it's OK to have a staff with one spell.
Are there any in the books? Did Paizo make an official one-spell staff?
Damn, it looks like that's true. I can still very clearly remember reading that somewhere but I sure can't find it, not in the PFSRD or in the 3.5 SRD. I don't know where I read that, but I guess it's OK to have a staff with one spell.
Are there any in the books? Did Paizo make an official one-spell staff?
It wasn't 3.5. The 3.5 FAQ very clearly says that a staff could be made with only 1 spell.
I think it was a very common guideline, however. No official staff has had 1 spell. And in 3.5, a single spell staff and a wand have the same price (assuming the same caster level), but the staff was so much better (same number of charges, but a higher DC and scaling effects from the user's caster level).
At higher level (about 14th plus), making custom staves becomes worthwhile if the GM is reasonably lenient over charges - but mainly for prepared casters who might want to cast multiple instances of between one and 3 or so spells, whilst retaining a wider variety of spells in their memories.
Eg I made a custom staff with Greater Dispel Magic, Enervation, and Anti Magic Shell in. It was used a few times.
At earlier levels, they still cost too much, even if you are permitted to use multiple charges to reduce the price.
However, I came across a formula for creating staves that says the
...priceis: 400gp × the level of the highest-level spell × the level of the caster, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (300 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster), plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities (200 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster).
Additionally: "He can also imbue one staff with a portion of his power so long as one or more of the spells cast by the staff
is on his spell list", so how much would this staff cost to buy at magicmart with a permissive GM, and could a cleric effectively use and charge it:Magic missle (not on oracle list) (1 charge)
detect magic (on oracle list) (10 charges)
Staves can only be recharged by a spell the same level as the highest in the staff. I have usually seen that as one of the highest level spells of the staff must be castable by the charger. This staff has a 0th spell and a 1st spell. Thus, I would need to have a spell from the 1st level. The suggested oracle cannot get MM, so cannot charge this staff. Some GMs might allow a hightened detect magic at 1st level to charge it. Some even more lenient GMs might allow a 1st level slot used as the spell to charge it.
Also remember, the spell component cost needs to be dealt with.
You are allowed to select the order of the spells within the same level. So you want your highest spell with the least cost [component, charges] to be the 400, then the next highest to be the 300, then the rest at the 200 cost.
Staves with 5 charges:
Gravedigger's Spade
Spark Staff
Staff Of Life
Staff Of The Freed Man
Staff Of The Planes
I know of no staff that uses more charges.
/cevah
