Adventurous Drive - (My Attempt At) Solving The 15 Minute Adventure Day

[Artificial 20]

What Is A "15 Minute Adventure Day"?
The "15 Minute Adventure Day", along with its variants of name such as "5 Minute Work Day", is a term for a pattern of play.

This pattern arises in Pathfinder and other systems with party resources, such as spells, special abilities and hit points, that refresh on a daily basis after resting. A 15 minute adventure day happens when a party, with sufficient control over when they face encounters ("You see the monsters, do you attack now or think up a plan?"), liberally expend these abilities in their first fight and rest shortly after to recharge them, rather than rationing them over multiple encounters as the GM/designers often intend.

15 minute adventure days can result in numerous balance issues, including overpowering the party in general, and causing power disparities between classes with sustainable abilities and those meant to have limited ones.

The problem is widely-discussed, and professional attempts to address it include "Milestones" from D&D 4th Edition and a major design focus in 5th Edition/D&D Next. It doesn't affect all players and games, as many will do what suits their characters and narrative over exacting optimisation, but its influence can creep into the tense decisions many games strive to present the players with.

Adventurous Drive
The further you can push yourself, the more potential you draw out.

"Adventurous Drive" is a system that, like many efforts before it, aims to offset the 15 minute adventure day with mechanical incentives. This is based on the philosophy that while people can roleplay around game mechanics with ingenuity, in an ideal system they roleplay WITH them.

Adventurous Drive grants bonuses to the party for fighting on through multiple encounters without a full rest. These bonuses are intended to emulate the heroism of characters in fiction (and sometimes life) that fight through a gauntlet of obstacles without relenting or retreating, and the reserves of might they drag out of themselves in doing so (the system was originally named Heroic Might, but I changed it to be more alignment all-inclusive).

These bonuses take the form of "Positive Levels". Positive Levels are a homebrew condition, and an inversion of the official Pathfinder concept of Negative Levels, granting bonuses that mirror the penalties suffered under the latter. Gaining a Positive Level grants the following bonuses:

• +1 To Ability Checks
  
• +1 To Attack Rolls
  
• +1 To Combat Manoeuvre Checks
  
• +1 To Combat Manoeuvre Defence
  
• +1 To Saving Throws
  
• +1 To Skill Checks
  
• +5 Current/Total Hit Points
  
• +1 Level For Level-Dependent Variables (spells, class features etc.)
  

These bonuses are of the new "Positive Level" type, which stacks with all bonuses, including itself.

Positive Levels are temporary, and awarded to the party at a rate of 1 each time they earn experience equal to that awarded by an "average" or CR = APL (Challenge Rating = Average Party Level) encounter. This will depend on the party level, but should remain a consistent percentage of the exp needed to reach next level due to Pathfinder's design. Positive Levels stack with themselves, but are lost upon performing any action equal to resting for 8 hours that recharges daily abilities (e.g. using "Nap Stack" and resting for 2 hours).

Narratively this represents the momentum of raised adrenaline and being "in the groove" from fighting continuously, and mechanically it gives players an incentive to maybe not rest right outside the big boss of the dungeon, as they can carry their hard-earned heap of bonuses right into that difficult fight (while tactical resting is not invalidated, and become a pro-con decision).

As a last note, when facing actual Negative Levels, Positive Levels can act as a "buffer". By having Negative Levels cancel out Positive Levels before they can directly affect characters, bookkeeping is lessened and Positive Levels have an additional incentive to earn in some instances.

Balancing
By itself, Adventurous Drive is a flat boost to the PCs' might, in the same vein as Hero Points and some other optional rules. For those who want to add it to games they GM, they should keep in mind that they are handing the players raw power with no drawbacks in this form.

For those wishing to balance Adventurous Drive without a power creep, various handicaps can be implemented. Personally, I suggest halving the wealth by level progression of the party (not including starting gold), as Positive Levels can grant many thousands of gold worth of benefits, and it further emphasises the heroism of the characters over owning an "Iron Man suit" of enhanced equipment. This has not been playtested to any useful extent, but seems like a good place to start such efforts.

In addition to this, GMs may want to limit gaining or stacking Positive Levels. I recommend the default rule of "Characters cannot have more Positive Levels than their hit dice", as this controls numbers in the first few levels where such bonuses can have the biggest impact. Most games are unlikely to see parties achieve more than 5 Positive Levels at once, barring exceptional endurance and resourcefulness, so this can be implemented as a "sensibility limit" as an alternative.

Parties may also intentionally "farm" numerous relatively weak enemies to build up their bonus at practically no cost, so a minimum limit to experience from a single encounter that counts may be prudent. However, if this does happen in the game the problem runs deeper, as the party will be achieving permanent levels "easily" from that same experience.

Overall, the Adventurous Drive system can be added to any game whether 15 minute adventure days are an issue or not. It lays simple, desirable benefits at the mechanical level along the path of playing characters adventurously. As I lack the social network to put this system through substantial playtesting, any feedback, suggestions or input in general is highly appreciated. Overall I want to embrace the spirit of people working together to have a good time that is arguably the foundation of roleplaying, whether tabletop or otherwise.

[Anonymous Visitor 163 576]

Here's an interesting alternate view:

http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/wandering-monster.html

[Rub-Eta]

I don't believe that it needs a mechanical fix. If it's a problem in a game it's because the players are faced with challanges that can be solved in 15min day adventures. Add urgency, and they'll have to go further.

[CBDunkerson]

Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote:

Here's an interesting alternate view:

http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/wandering-monster.html

Yeah. To me this '15 minute adventuring day' concept sounds like, 'Hey, here we are... please set up traps and defenses to target us specifically, gather all your forces, and come ambush us while we sleep. Thanks.'

[Artificial 20]

This system isn't intended just as a solution to the 15 minute adventure day. It's meant to be fun in its own right, while potentially fixing that concern as well. It's not the only way, but is more "carrot" than "stick".

[thejeff]

CBDunkerson wrote:

Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote:

Here's an interesting alternate view:

http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/wandering-monster.html

Yeah. To me this '15 minute adventuring day' concept sounds like, 'Hey, here we are... please set up traps and defenses to target us specifically, gather all your forces, and come ambush us while we sleep. Thanks.'

And to me that solution has always sounded like: "We'll probably be attacked when we rest, so we'll need to keep even more in reserve and rest sooner." It also leads to even more problems when you're dealing with something that isn't designed to be dealt with in one go.

But that aside, the idea here is interesting, though maybe a bit farther than I'd go. Pushing on and taking risks being rewarded with more (temporary) power, possibly even letting you take on challenges you couldn't have beaten when rested is a neat idea.

Edit: I was thinking of temporary Hero Points as a carrot. Going away when you do rest, so there's the encouragement to keep pushing.
Your idea is more powerful and probably over the top, but I do kind of like the idea of actually being tougher when you face the BBEG after hacking your way through a bunch of his minions than you would be if you fought him fresh. Not realistic perhaps, but cinematic.

[Trekkie90909]

Easier fix is to remove spell slots and implement a casting tax. Something like casting a spell costs 10*spell level squared gold. Want to blow everything on every fight? Go ahead. Don't complain when you're broke. It incentivizes longer days since that means earning more gold.

[GM 1990]

Artificial 20 wrote:

What Is A "15 Minute Adventure Day"?

The "15 Minute Adventure Day", along with its variants of name such as "5 Minute Work Day", is a term for a pattern of play.

This pattern arises in Pathfinder and other systems with party resources, such as spells, special abilities and hit points, that refresh on a daily basis after resting. A 15 minute adventure day happens when a party, with sufficient control over when they face encounters ("You see the monsters, do you attack now or think up a plan?"), liberally expend these abilities in their first fight and rest shortly after to recharge them, rather than rationing them over multiple encounters as the GM/designers often intend.

15 minute adventure days can result in numerous balance issues, including overpowering the party in general, and causing power disparities between classes with sustainable abilities and those meant to have limited ones.

The problem is widely-discussed, and professional attempts to address it include "Milestones" from D&D 4th Edition and a major design focus in 5th Edition/D&D Next. It doesn't affect all players and games, as many will do what suits their characters and narrative over exacting optimisation, but its influence can creep into the tense decisions many games strive to present the players with.

Adventurous Drive
The further you can push yourself, the more potential you draw out.

"Adventurous Drive" is a system that, like many efforts before it, aims to offset the 15 minute adventure day with mechanical incentives. This is based on the philosophy that while people can roleplay around game mechanics with ingenuity, in an ideal system they roleplay WITH them.

Adventurous Drive grants bonuses to the party for fighting on through multiple encounters without a full rest. These bonuses are intended to emulate the heroism of characters in fiction (and sometimes life) that fight through a gauntlet of obstacles without relenting or retreating, and the reserves of might they drag out of themselves in...

Interesting concept - it might be a little overpowered, although the not-greater than HD would help.

I think this issue is really typically driven by Arcane casters (although Barbarians who rage on the first rat-swarm in a dungeon could also). They have a limited number of useful spells for encounters whether its buff or attack, and most inexperienced casters are like the forementioned barbarian - blast at first contact, then 1d3 sling attack vs the Boss. I'm trying to work around this by allowing casters to use their casting stat (Int/Wis/Cha) bonus for attack/damage bonus including cantrips/orisons. IE. 1d3 acid splash would add INT/CHA bonus and get "unlimited # of attacks per day". Yes...its vs touch AC, but they're a 1/3 BAB class, so still not a freebie attack roll. I'm also considering giving them +1 per level (max of +5), to allow spells to level-up (similar to what I hear 5E does?). With that casters can both save their best spells for the Boss battle, and use magic to essentially do same or a little better damage than using sling/cross-bow.
I haven't really worked this out for healers yet, but thinking something similar for Virtue or other minor buff spells. Plus, they seem to be less the issue, since they can hold their own in battle (armor and weapon options), and don't need to blow channel/CLW/CMW during first contact since any fighter with common sense is going to keep a CLW/CMW potion or 2 handy. Obviously a session full of undead might make the cleric want to rest to get channels recharged, but there are other ways they can be killed - and again -cleric can be useful in melee w/o channel where as wizard/sorcerer not so much after they blow their 2 fire-ball, 3x Acid Arrow and 4 magic missles.

If the group really is resource attritted and can't finish the encounter arc w/o resting - and thus letting the Boss get away or having to sleep outside their room (really??), then its more likely a GM problem or poor player tactics. I would say the GM either didn't do a good job of designing the encounter arcs for things like an in-city story-line, or sent the party off after the mcguffin knowing he/she had designed a multi-level, trapped, multiple Hard or Epic CR encounter dungeon, but didn't prompt them to pack accordingly - water, food, torches, healing potions, minor restoration potions, ROPE, pack-animals to haul out the required item, etc. The GM designed the encounter with the party in mind, he/she controls the tempo just as much as the players.
As a returning GM, one thing I really like about PF is the CR concept. Back in my 1E/2E days it was a real art/challenge getting the combat/trap ratio's right w/o doing a TPK or having the group bulldoze each encounter of a story arc. With CRs, a GM is in position to design the whole session so the 15min adventure day doesn't happen unless the players fire all their special abilities in the first low-CR encounter. if your group tends to do it, maybe a little post-play "tactics" discussion would help everyone. That way they understand that in all "planned encounters", there are going to be multiple challenges to overcome and the hardest one will be at the end "climax". They may not know when that moment is...but if they at least understand how you as the GM design the challenges for them they can make a conscious decision to hold their heavy-firepower until they think its absolutely needed. Done properly the idea of attritting the group's resources is part of the GMs design that makes that final boss battle epic in its own right.
If its an outdoor wandering/random encounter, different story - fire away. I typically give those monsters near max HP, have them use some tactics/terrain/special abilities to their best, and will ensure the encounter CR is 1 or 2 above APL since I know the group can unload all their firepower and be "black on ammo" at the end of it w/o worrying about "the next room".

[Stereofm]

The problem with 15 minutes adventure day is bad adventure design, and powermunching players exploiting it.

Want to avoid that ?

Write the adventure with victory conditions for the villain which means the PCs need to act now, or lose.

It can be :
- Need to act now, or villain gains unlimited reinforcements
- Need to act now, or villain escapes
- Need to act now, or villain slays target, and everything else is pretty irrelevant

Would it be logical IRL for the party to rest and nothing happens after their 15 minutes ? No ? Then don't have it in game.

Also, if the party stays immobile to rest, then they become targets to be ambushed. Stay out also of the boring and predictable three encounters a day. Send as many encounters as needed to make them squeal ... if that is logical with the situation.

[Paulicus]

Sounds interesting, rather cinematic. Though I'd want to see it in action to really judge it.

I like thejeff's idea of Temporary hero points as a less-extreme way of giving incentive to push on.

[Artificial 20]

Thank you all for your responses so far. This wouldn't be much use if no one was interested in it, and I appreciate the insights.

thejeff temporary Hero Points sounds like a great way to achieve the same core incentive, it reminds me of Milestones in 4th edition (I've not played, but read about it). Those struck me as a good concept, but not sufficiently desirable in the larger system to work for most people.

Adventurous Drive by itself is definitely a boost in power to the party, like Hero Points or Mythic Levels. For people who enjoy that kind of play I don't think there'd be a problem, if you wanted a more balanced level of challenge you'd definitely need a handicap in counterpart. What do you think about halving the wealth by level/gold gained by the party as they progress? A single Positive Level emulates a good few thousand gold of magic equipment, and with how the cost of bonuses squares it might scale up with higher wealth levels. My hope is the party would start each day weaker than normal, but by pressing on, catch up to or even surpass the default level of power for their standard wealth.

Trekkie90909/GM 1990 I myself have issues with magic and magic-users in Pathfinder, to the point I personally eschew the 2nd half of the 20-level spectrum because it gets out of hand for my tastes. One of my own characters is a sorcerer who will never take Haste, because it doesn't suit them more than other spells I've picked for thematic reasons.

While Vancian magic is one of the main contributors to the 15 minute adventure day, it's also quite integral to Pathfinder's creative style, and as someone often says you can't change Pathfinder too much or you aren't playing Pathfinder any more. This is intended to be a simple and universal system that doesn't single out certain classes explicitly, whether or not the balance between them and others could be refined. I luckily enough have never had this problem in any games I've played in, so while I do appreciate advice, I personally can't apply it for the record. This is an idea I thought may be useful to others, and shared.

I'm also fond of the CR system GM 1990. From both sides (GM and player) it's satisfying to have a nominal notion of how tough a fight is/was meant to be so you have something to measure achievement against.

Stereofm proactive NPCs/antagonists are one of my favourite ways to give a world life. I like seeing those ideas employed, but a GM can find it restrictive if they wanted a different tempo for parts of their campaign. Sometimes you just want to have an ancient dungeon or spooky manor for the party to explore naturally and without other distractions.

Paulicus thanks for your support! If you or anyone were willing to give it a try with a group and report how it went, I'd be immensely grateful. There's no true substitute for honest and varied playtesting.

[alexd1976]

Or simply have enemies attack their home base when they go there...

going home endangers the home.

*shrugs*

camping out in wilderness involves random encounters.

Wizards need eight hours rest, even a goblin with a bell can prevent that.