|
First and foremost, I've found that it can be very difficult to get into the game as the staggering amount of knowledge you need to even begin play is prohibitive. To that end, I have looked up as much information as I could in my free time. Still, I am new and ignorant, and need more than a little bit of help on even the more basic things.
I joined a group about 2 months back that played weekly or biweekly. Making a character is difficult enough, but after looking through the allowable races (correct me if this is outdated) I found Wayangs were allowable in society play. Looking to play this race, I immediately hit a stumbling block- what does my character start with? 150 gp, basic clothing worth ~10gp or less, and traits, of course, but there are subleties, such as:
* Do I simply receive the racial bonuses? Do I receive ALL of them (all feats, racial traits, alternate traits), or am I still bound to the 2 traits, one feat at level 1?
* What counts as a high intelligence score as far as languages are concerned, and how many do I receive?
* Is there a quick way to determine what archetypes/extra feats/traits are legal in society play?
I'm wanting to make a stealthy character that aids my team as a sort of scout, one that forgoes almost all defense to rely on stealth and the ability to hide back away from enemies. I hear poison is bad, but I find it intriguing and maybe even fun from the roleplaying aspect, so I want to use it. Any tips character creation along those lines?
Sorry for the block of text, I tried to break it up a bit. I have a lot more to ask, but I don't want to step on any feet, so I'll leave it at that. Thanks ahead of time for any advice.
Contributor
|
First off, welcome!
You receive all "racial traits" listed in your race. Feats can be taken at the usual levels. You receive two "traits". Traits are different from racial traits. I know, it's confusing. ^_^
Your positive Intelligence modifier is the number of bonus languages you receive. You do not lose any for having a bonus of 0 or lower.
For legality, the Additional Resources page here is the ultimate qualifier. The site Archives of Nethys is generally reliable, though; look for a symbol next to the feat/spell/item's name.
More to come...
|
Contributor
|
Stealth is difficult to use in Pathfinder; I don't know if I'd start there. You could play a rogue (if so, look into something called Pathfinder Unchained) or a ninja, and use archery with poison.
The wayang has good ability modifiers for the witch class, if you're willing to try something more spellcaster-y. Their hexes and spells generally focus on hampering enemies.
|
|
Wow, so race traits, i.e. size, weight, low light vision, speed, etc are simply received, but traits that you can qualify for based only on race (human's adoptive parentage and the like) are part of your 2 initial traits.
It's so confusing having instant free access to standard racial traits, skill/feat racial traits, and defensive racial traits, but not "traits only available based on race" That's so helpful, thanks!
edt: Not set on being a rogue, just thought it would be a simple place to start as in most role playing scenarios I like to be that type of character. Debuffing enemies and assisting party members would be my ideal style of play, and I intended to use poison to the effect. My group has told me that poison is expensive, but looking at the crafting system it seems to be cheap to make. A lot of us are new, so taking them for their word is generally unwise.
|
Contributor
|
Racial traits: These are what's listed in the race.
Alternate Racial Traits: These are alternatives to the above. You trade out the ones listed above for these. So Adoptive Parentage trades out your human bonus feat.
Traits: These are what you get two of. They're generally little bonuses. For example, Indomitable Faith gives you a +1 on Will saves. Reactionary gives you +2 to initiative.
Further confusing things, some of category 3 are "race traits", which are only available to certain races. They do not interact with the previous two at all. This includes Adopted, which lets you choose a "race trait" from another race - but not a racial trait (category 1) or an alternate racial trait (category 2).
|
|
I feel like maybe the portion of the game involving traits as they relate to races and their alternatives should be re-written. Without having you explicitly explain it, I would never have been able to tell them apart.
Just to further clarify, as a wayang I would recieve:
* all standard traits
* +2 to perception and stealth checks
* +2 on all saving throws against shadow magic
* Shadowmagic
* Darkvision
* Light and Dark supernatural ability
With the ability to swap shadowmagic for dissolution's child and still retain 2 traits? It seems that they don't have race traits linked to class, either, so only the base traits are allowed.
|
|
Thanks a ton for all the help. Don't let me bother you, don't feel obliged to answer if it's getting late or you get busy. Otherwise, I'll throw a few my questions out there?
For mages, witches, and maybe a couple other classes (can't remember right now) you can "prepare spells". What and how is that done?
What are "caster levels", and how specifically do they affect magic intensity?
When playing as a caster, how can I avoid spell failure and still have the ability to not die the second I step into combat?
When I chose a pathfinder faction, I did so just to have one. If it will have roleplaying implications, I might need to know more than just what they represent but the background of the idea as well.
|
Contributor
|
I have plenty of time. ^_^
Preparing spells happens once per day, generally after a period of rest. You choose one spell for each of your spell slots. Once you cast a spell, it's used up - so if you like a spell a lot, consider preparing multiples.
Each class has a different reservoir of spells; for example, the witch's familiar. You can only prepare spells from that source. You'll start with some spells in there, and you can add new spells as you level up or from other sources.
Your caster level is equal to your level in the class that got you the spell. It affects each spell differently, but some common variables include:
-spell range
-number of damage dice
-duration
It does not affect the DC of the spell. That's based on the spell's level and your ability modifier.
I wouldn't worry too much about survival; you're not as fragile as you might feel. Just try to stay behind the rest of the team.
If you don't know much about factions, I'd choose Grand Lodge - it's the "non-Faction". From a roleplaying perspective, it means you generally put the Pathfinder Society's own goals above the various groups trying to use it for their agenda.
|
|
When you say per slot, what do you mean? Is that one spell per spell level, or are you allowed a certain number per day based on level like the sorcerer?
I tend to forget to specify my how I commit my actions in-game, so I don't roll a check and don't gain the benefits I intend. I can't do voices well either, so it can be hard to tell whether I am speaking or my pc is speaking. Are these issues that I'll fix with experience?
If I choose to play as a witch, can I factor in my stealthiness in my gameplay? Is it worth it to specialize my magic to benefit my stealth?
|
Contributor
|
There are tables in the class, alongside the benefits for leveling up. Check what level you are, then slide across and count how many of each level you get. (You'll get more for having a high Intelligence, but... one thing at a time.)
So... sort of like the sorcerer, but you have to set each spell up in advance. There is a variant witch that casts spells spontaneously, like a sorcerer. Archetypes are another layer of complication, though.
A lot of that (and this) will come with experience.
As for stealth... witches don't normally get the best sneaky spell, invisibility, although they can. They may have other good spells - there's a lot out there.
Using one of your traits (category 3) you can add Stealth as a class skill. Between that, Dexterity, and (assuming wayang) a +4 size bonus, you should be very good at hiding.
Choosing the right familiar (such as cat) will give you even more Stealth, and the familiar can scout as well. If something happens to the familiar, though, you can't prepare spells until you somehow get a replacement. Be careful! ^_^
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Just popping in to say that Kalindlara, you're such a great asset to these forums. For all the time I've been browsing here, you always try to come to help others as quick as you can! I figured you didn't hear this enough and I just wanted to extend my thanks for being such a great contributing member to the Pathfinder Society!
|
|
If it's difficult to grab invisibility as a witch, what about going shadow patron and using darkness at higher levels? How would I go about being an invisibility-using witch? I very much would like to go with a stealth theme. Being unable to be seen removes my lack of bulk and constitution, keeping me from being mauled by tigers, sniped by archers, and generally spending a lot of time poking myself with a wand of cure light wounds every round.
If I am unable to attack from stealth for bonuses like rogues, what else would I receive as a boon for remaining undetected? Silently buffing my party seems like it would be really cool.
I can use a time patron @ lvl 6 to cast silence on my familiar and have it sneak around near mages, ruining their somatic elements for spellcasting... Just throwing around ideas, not sure whether it's optimal or unique, but it seems like it would be fun.
Edt: which casters are subject to have the physical elements of a spell with them when preparing spells?
|
Contributor
|
I see you've noticed the patrons! One of them (spirits, I think) grants invisibility. If that interests you, I'd think about it.
Remember that darkness can hamper some of your allies as well, and many enemies see through it. You need deeper darkness, a higher-level spell, to stop darkvision.
Silence on your familiar (or a helpful party member) could be an excellent tactic, especially since the time patron also grants haste - arguably the best buff in all of Pathfinder.
Spellcasting with a V (verbal) component will generally break Stealth. Once you've learned a bit more, look into the Silent Spell feat or a metamagic rod. If you have access to invisibility, it is only broken by direct attacks - you can buff your party or summon monsters and remain invisible. There aren't a lot of benefits for casting from Stealth... other than not getting hit, I suppose. ^_^
If you get your hands on a book called Familiar Folio, it has a familiar archetype called mauler, which lets your familiar turn into a human-sized beast around 3rd level. As a wayang, you could even ride your familiar around! If you do so, a trait that gives you Ride as a class skill might be nice.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Welcome.
First, I would like to say, it is a learning experience. If you and your group are all new to it, I wish to add this - try not to worry if everyone is having fun.
We've all been there. New to a game, with rules that were new to us. We would play for weeks, months, and slowly learn we had misinterpreted rules, or ere running it "wrong". Since it was just you and your friends, the GM gets to decide if you had more fun dong things the way you were doing, or to try doing things the "right" way. We've all learned through this process.
I would also like to try explaining what is meant by "prepared" casters.
All casters have access to a certain amount of spells. Wizards have a spellbook, and do not start by having every wizard spell written in them. Clerics and druids get their spells through their faith, so its kind of like having a spellbook with all the spells available. Witches have a familiar that acts like a wizards spellbook. All of these examples are prepared casters. At a certain period of time, once a day (usually just after they waken from rest) a prepared caster looks at what spells they have available and writes down which is "prepared". A prepared spell is like a bullet placed in the chamber of a revolver. The spell slots is how many chambers are in this metaphorical revolver.
For example, a second level wizard (baring bonus spells) has two 1st level spell slots. That wizard might have the following first level spells in his or her spellbook - mage armor, magic missile, and color spray. With only two spell slots (chambers in the revolver), the wizard can only choose to cast two spells for that day. Maybe the sample wizard decides to prepare both slots as color spray. That means for the whole day, the wizard can cast color spray twice, then is out of spells. I know, low level casters run out of spells quick. More to follow -
Follow up.
I hope I explained prepared casters well. So, what is the other non-prepared caster like?
That is a spontaneous caster. Bards, oracles, sorcerers, and summoners are examples of spontaneous casters.
They do need rest, yet they do not need to plan their spells ahead like prepared casters. The problem is that they are very limited in what spells they know. Unlike a wizard, a spontaneous caster can't write down more spells into a spellbook they purchased (or take from a fallen foe). They choose their spell or two as they level up, and they are stuck with that choice until they get to add another when they level up again. Like the wizard, they have spell slots (chambers in their revolver). Unlike the wizard, they don't have as much choice in ammunition.
For example, a 2nd level sorcerer only knows two first level spells (types of bullets). That's it, can't pick any others without using a feat. The sorcerer has four first level spell slots though (chambers in the revolver). For our example, the sorcerer only knows mage armor and color spray. Unlike the wizard, the sorcerer does not have to decide at the beginning of the day which spell goes into which slot. That is where they are spontaneous, they choose which of the spells they know goes into which slot as the need to cast arrives. The example sorcerer can cast color spray or mage armor in any combination for the day, so long as the sorcerer only casts up to four times that day. Sadly, the example wizard can never cast magic missile (until another experience level is gained, allowing the sorcerer to gain one more first level spell known).
To recap - the wizard (prepared caster) has fewer chambers in the spell revolver, and must decide what kind of ammunition (which spells) will fill those spell slots (chambers) at the beginning of the day. Bad choices could mean you will have a spell slot filled with a "dead spell" - a spell you thought you would need that day, yet turned out you did not. The sorcerer (spontaneous caster) has more spell slots (chambers in the spell revolver), yet a very limited selection of spells (ammunition types). Still, the sorcerer doesn't need to decide how to divide the spells known (ammunition types), they can be used in any combination on the fly. more to follow on the recap -
|
|
Sorry for the late response, grabbed a bite to eat. I'll read and edit afterwards. Thanks for the help guys!
Edt: That explanation was absolutely amazing, thanks for the clarification. I had played a sorcerer before, so I understood the concept insofar as sorcerers go. I was under the impression that they were simply better mages, given the spontaneity in casting they were allowed. I see now that they're much more limited in scope.
What are some situation in which a mage or witch could write down a spell that they have seen? If they manage to fell an enemy that had a spell, are they able to write it down? If they cast detect magic and find a magically marked book that has spells in it, can they move the spells over to their spell storage medium?
If a mage loses his book or it is destroyed, does he have to start from scratch? If a witch's familiar is killed or dies of old age, do they lose all their spells?
BTW, sorry, didn't know the group was for society play. Just assumed the original post meant a local group of friends.
Anyway, the difference between prepared and spontaneous casters is apples and oranges. Both are awesome, both are different, many prefer one to the other and some like both equally well.
The strength of a prepared caster is when you have an almost full spellbook (or whatever equivalent), and you know what kind of situation you will be in for the day. The wizard knows the group is going into the forest of the dead - a wise wizard would prepare a lot of spells that would be useful fighting undead. In other words, the prepared caster can change up everything they know to plan ahead for a situation that isn't normal for them. If on day two, everyone is okay and they plan to head to town and celebrate, the wizard could plan to prepare a bunch of spells useful for bartering or keeping out of trouble in town, like charm or identify spells. In short, to use the right tools for a specific job.
The strength of a spontaneous caster is to be able to repeat a single, useful spell over and over again. A higher level wizard might have prepared a fly spell once or twice for a day. Yet when the group is chased and needs to cross a chasm, that might do little good for the rest of the group. That's when the sorcerer is awesome. If a sorcerer knew the fly spell, said sorcerer can cast the fly spell on all of his or her allies as long as there are enough spell slots (and there usually are), so everyone makes it across. In short, if you only need one or two spells and ignore the others for all your life, the spontaneous caster is what you seek. You only need a hammer and a screwdriver, the rest of the tools you'll improvise.
Hope this helps.
If a wizard loses a spellbook, or a witch's familiar dies, then they are out of luck. They lose all their spells and have to rebuild from scratch. Any spells that have not been cast yet is still "retained", and if the witch can gain another familiar quick, or the wizard makes a new spellbook, then they can start "saving" those prepared spells into the new medium.
There are rules for wizards and witches gaining new spells in ways other than levelling up. It requires a successful spellcraft check, time, and access to the new material. In the case of a wizard with captured or purchased spellbook, the wizard can make a single spellcraft check for each spell in that book, if successful the spell is understood and can be copied into his or her original spellbook (with a cost for special inks). It is detailed in the Core Rulebook under the magic section (right before spells). Witches have to seek out other witches. If they agree to an exchange of knowledge, their familiars can "talk" to each other and trade spells, so long as the receiving witch makes the correct spellcraft check (one attempt per spell only from that particular source). If a spellcraft check fails, you have to wait to level up before trying from that same particular source again. There is a sidebar in the advanced players guide in the witches section that explains more.
A witch cannot learn spells from a wizards spellbook, and a wizard cannot learn spells from a witches familiar.
Both can risk a scroll for the chance to learn a spell. Said scroll must be destroyed in a ritual, a spellcraft check is made. If successful, you can add the spell to your spellbook or familiar. If you fail, you just destroyed a scroll and gain nothing for your trouble.
It must be an arcane scroll, and have a spell available to your class. So a wizard can't learn a bard or witch cure wounds spells, and a witch can't learn a spell that isn't normally available to witches.
If you are a level 1 caster, best not to choose metamagic feats (except maybe merciful spell). You cannot use the feat until you gain higher level slots to modify them into.
Metamagic RODS are ways you can get around that.
Even worse, prepared casters have to state ahead of time if they plan to prepare a spell with a metamagic feat. Its a strong tactic to keep one or two silent metamagic spells in your selection for a higher level wizard/witch. That way, you are not shut down if some other caster uses the silence spell on or near you.
spontaneous casters can add metamagic on the fly, yet it adds a lot to the casting time, making them vulnerable while casting.
Again, they are different with different weaknesses.
|
Contributor
|
It's in the class, under "Witch's Familiar". 3 + your Intelligence modifier are in your starting "spellbook".
As for your spells per day, there's a table (linked below) that translates your Int modifier into bonus spells, which you then add to those on the table. If your Int is between 12 and 19 (likely), it's +1 1st-level spell.
So adding that to the table, you would have 3 0-level spells and 2 1st-level spells.
|
Contributor
|
I mentioned a variant witch earlier. If spontaneous (sorcerer-style) casting sounds better to you, this is still an option. You won't have the familiar, though, and you won't get your first hex until 2nd level. You get conduit surge at 1st instead.
The spellcasting for the ley line guardian is still Int-based, but conduit surge is partly Charisma-based, so keep that in mind as well.
|
Contributor
|
There's one other thing. As I mentioned earlier, it sounds like you're playing in Pathfinder Society. This means that you have to actually own (in one way or another) the source you're using. You might get a pass for a few sessions if you're just starting out, but eventually it'll be time.
I don't know if the Core Rulebook is a requirement, but for a witch, you'd need the Advanced Player's Guide, and for the wayang, you'd need the Advanced Race Guide. If you want a spell, item, feat, archetype, or anything else from another book, you'll need that book as well.
PDFs are fine, but if you get the PDF, you just need to print off the appropriate page (they're marked with your name). Some groups may be less rigorous about this than others, though; give it some time and see how your group is.
|
|
How do things like profession, perform, and crafting work? Can I just pick a class of things I can craft (bows? jewelry? magic items?), or do I have to have something happen before I can learn these, even as class skills?
I have to own the resources? That's a bit odd, but I suppose I can see why they would do that.
Responses below are aimed at someone playing PFS, not general home games.
Don't worry about crafting, if you are playing PFS. The organized play campaign doesn't allow players to craft, as people who are super super knowledgeable of the crafting system could them abuse the system super hard. So no crafting!
Perform is a skill that pretty much only Bards make heavy use of. Unless you are playing a Bard, I would wait until you have a better grasp of other systems before messing with it.
Professions in PFS can affect two things, one that happens very rarely if at all, and one that happens at the end of every scenario.
The rare ones are skill checks pertaining to a specific profession, such as profession: sailor raise a main sail or profession: librarian to find a rare book. These are skill checks just like your other skills, like you roll a d20 + your climb skill to climb a rope, you roll a d20 plus your profession: librarian skill to find the book. Notice the professions are very limited in scope, having profession sailor won't help you find a book at all! So it's only in very specific situations in PFS that a profession skill is useful.
The one that happen at the end of the scenario is called the Day Job Check. This is a check where you have the option to earn a small bit of extra gold for your character by doing your 'day job', i.e., what you do when you aren't adventuring. You roll the d20, add your profession skill, and the resulting number is given to the GM, which they match against the day job chart to see how much gold you get. The Gold amounts range from 5 to about 20 gold at low levels.
|
|
Responses below are aimed at someone playing PFS, not general home games.
Definitely doing PFS, though. Feeling like it's somewhat skewed in our favor since we're new, but for the most part rules are rules and I would like to do things the way they are meant to be done.
If I can't craft, how do I get wondrous items and the like?
Yes, craft, perform, and profession can all be sued for the Day Job checks, however since there is no crafting allows in PFS, there would be no secondary benefit to having a craft skill.
Now Craft skills are INT based, Profession skills are WIS based, and Perform skills are CHA based. So if you care a whole bunch about that day job check you can take the skill that best fits your stats.
I'll say a bit more about perform and craft real quick, just for future reference.
The perform line of skills (Perform:Dance, Perform:Sing, Perform:Sting Instruments, etc,) are skills used by characters who use music or other types of performances in their adventures. These skills represent a character trying to do some sort of performance, such as sing a sing, tell a story, do a dance, in front of an audience. There are 9 different types of performances (listed in the Core Rulebook under skills) and each type counts as a different skill. If you put points into Perform: Comedy, it means you aren't any better at singing as someone with no perform skills at all.
Bards (and to a lesser extent Skalds) are the class that make the most use out of Performances, as they have specific class abilities that use perform skills, through other classes can make use of perform and some feat chains need you to be some sort of performer. Perform checks can come up in scenarios, such as trying to win a singing contest or performing a rousing speech to a crowd.
Craft skills work much the same way. If you take a craft skill you need to specify what kind of craft skill you are taking, and then that is the type of item you can craft. If you take Craft: Alchemy you can make alchemical items, but not a sword, and if you take Craft: Armor you can make leather armor or plate armor but not a simple cooking pot. NOTE, just because you have a craft skill doesn't mean you can make MAGIC items, for those you need special magic item making feats, however once you get the feats you DO need the associated craft skill to make the item.
You roll a craft check like any other skill, roll the d20 then add your craft skill to get your result.
And again, you aren't allowed to craft anything in PFS. There are some very specific exceptions for some very specific classes to craft some very specific items, but it's not something you have to worry about until you get much more familiar with the game.
To answer the question about how to obtain wondrous items without crafting: You can find it as loot, get it as a reward or buy it with gold. I have very little experience with PFS but I believe that there is a special type of 'currency' there that allow you to get things as well, I think it is prestige or something. The others will correct me on that if it's wrong I'm sure.
I am also happy to answer personal messages as well or you can contact me on Skype (pm for username).
Edit; heh I got Ninja'd.
When it comes to buying things in PFS, look at it this way:
Imagine at the end of your adventure, you have to go to Pathfinder Reporting Office, which is like the precinct you see on a police TV show. This doesn't actually happen at the end of a scenario, so just bear with me here.
So you go to Pathfinder Reporting Office, wave to Gus a the front desk, and head inside carrying a sack full of all the loot you found. You head down the Quartermaster, which is like the Evidence lockup. There's a guy behind a window labeled 'Receiving' named Chuck, you ask how the family is doing, and you open your sack of new loot.
You hand each piece of loot to Chuck through the window, and he writes down everything you found as you hand it over to him, checks his computer for the current value of all the stuff and writes that down, listens to your report of what you did to get the new item and writes that down, then puts it all in labeled bins for storage. Once Chuck has everything you found in his bins, he calculates how much you need to get paid based on how hard it was to get all the stuff. You get paid less for stealing.. er... finding... a magic ring from a baby than you do from an ancient red dragon. So he adds up how much you deserve and hands you a stack of gold for that amount. You add that gold to your account.
Now there's also a window down there labeled 'Issuing', where a lady named Bertha works. There is a nice computer kiosk next to the window that you can use. On this computer you can look up a list of all the stuff you have brought in (this is the stuff listed on all your chronicle sheets), plus all the stuff everyone else has brought in, and how much it will cost to buy that stuff from the Quartermaster at the Issuing window. And there are enough pathfinders out there that almost EVERYTHING ever has been brought in by somebody at sometime, so it's in storage.
Now you always have the option to buy stuff from the list of stuff you brought in, but amount of stuff you have access to from the things others brought in changes as you go up in Pathfinder rank (prestige and fame). The higher your rank (fame), the better and more expensive things you can buy from Bertha. And as you go up in rank, you also have the option to get one time promotion gifts of free stuff (buying things with prestige).
So you see that you have enough gold to buy the magic bunny slippers of comfyness that you found three weeks ago for 4000 gold, so you head over to Bertha. You notice that yesterday someone else brought in a fluffy bathrobe of snuggleness and it's work 4000 gold as well. You want to buy the bathrobe instead, but Bertha tells you that you don't have the rank (fame) to be allowed to buy it yet, because someone else brought that item in, but you can still buy the slippers YOU brought in, even though they both cost the same amount. You need to get three more points of fame to advance in rank enough to buy the bathrobe, so you decide to not buy the slippers and save your money until after a few more missions, when you will have enough fame to buy the bathrobe.
So that's a bit of a story to explain how buying things in PFS works if the explaination in the Guild Guide is confusing.
|
|
Finished with class and had our Thursday session today. I'm now level 2, and the only reason we succeeded at this particular scenario is because I chose infernal as one of my extra languages. It was great.
I have been making around 500 gold each encounter, but I don't know what I really want to spend it on. I have a backpack with the necessities, an infiltration kit, and weapons. If I no longer want or need something, may I sell it back?
May have to go for the night.
You can always sell items back for half value at any level.
If you are still 1st level (and only at 1st level) you can (essentially) sell items back at full value.