Blindsense vs objects

[geekgumbo]

So I understand blindsense boils down to "you know where critters are, you just get no benefits". They still get miss %, you loose ac as if they are invisible, etc. Blindsense serves the purpose of whoever has it screams "Howzabout a little D. Invisible over here?"
There is no mention on how it operates on non-attacky things- can a person with blindsense navigate a dark living room without hitting their shins on the coffee table? Can they detect hidden doors/compartments?
The description uses the phrase "Using non-visual senses the dragon disciple notices things he cannot see." Can we get a little more vague? Is it an increase in the other normal senses, or development of others?

[Jeraa]

geekgumbo wrote:

Is it an increase in the other normal senses, or development of others?

Yes.

Blindsense is left vague for a reason - it covers many different forms. The only constant is that it is nonvisual.

Quote:

Using nonvisual senses, such as acute smell or hearing, a creature with blindsense notices things it cannot see.

Enhanced hearing won't help against objects. Enhanced smell might in some cases. Some other form of blindsense might work.

[Guru-Meditation]

It is vague, because it covers stuff like Super-Smell, the comic hero Daredevil's Echolocation and the animal Bat's Sonar Sight.

Effectively you can "see" without using your eyes.

[Joesi]

It would absolutely allow them to navigate, and avoid moving into any objects or walls.

It wouldn't detect most hidden doors in my opinion, at least for most circumstances.

Generally I try to treat it all as echolocation, since that's probably the most common type of blindsense anyway. They'd know roughly where anything is, and even what most common things are, but not small details on things.

[Matthew Downie]

Guru-Meditation wrote:

It is vague, because it covers stuff like Super-Smell, the comic hero Daredevil's Echolocation and the animal Bat's Sonar Sight.

Effectively you can "see" without using your eyes.

Echolocation exists in Pathfinder as a spell - it grants Blindsight rather than Blindsense. Blindsight would give you Daredevil's ability to fight opponents in pitch darkness with no penalties. Blindsense is a vaguer "I think there's someone over there" ability.

Dire bats, which should have a version of real-world echolocation, use Blindsense.

I assume bats are capable of flying in the dark without crashing into walls all the time, suggesting blindsense is good enough for avoiding furniture.

[Crimeo]

I don't think it's clear in the rules, likely on purpose.

It would depend on the method of blindsense. If you just "hear really well" and that's all, then objects should be a no-go. But notice that BATS for instance, have blindsense, and bats use active echolocation that does definitely allow them to sense inanimate objects that way.

So I think the GM would have to consider the creature and what the lore reason for it is and apply logic to answer this.

Quote:

Echolocation exists in Pathfinder as a spell - it grants Blindsight rather than Blindsense.

common bat too definitely has blindsense not blindsight. So don't have to infer about whether dire bats work differently or whatever.

[Matthew Downie]

Crimeo wrote:

It would depend on the method of blindsense. If you just "hear really well" and that's all, then objects should be a no-go.

Does that mean some forms of blindsense should be defeated by a Silence spell?

[SlimGauge]

Blindsense might be inferior echo-location (whereas superior echo-location provides Blindsight). Blindsense might be very sensitive skin that detects the pressure waves in the air that movement pushes around and can detect stationary objects because they reflect these waves the way ripples in a still pond reflect from similar objects. Maybe blindsense senses minute variations in local gravity, magnetic fields or the electric field generated by the nerve impulses of other creatures.

It's not specified on purpose. GMs need something to do. Ask them.