Unchained Monk Ki Powers and Retraining


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

So I misunderstood how a ki power that I picked worked (so did my GMs apparently) and would like to retrain it.

But I'm not sure it is possible to do so. Ultimate Campaign was written before Pathfinder Unchained, so it doesn't mention any unchained class features that can be retrained and Pathfinder Unchained didn't mention retraining in any of its new classes, which seems like a clear oversight because by a strict reading of RAW unless any new class addresses retraining, no new class will have an retrainable class features.

So it seems like my character is stuck with a ki power that he's probably never going to be able to use because retraining was not.

Does anyone know of any rule or clarification where this was allowed.

This is a Society character, so "ask your GM" doesn't work. I was excited to finally start playing this character again after Unchained came out and a rebuild of the classic monk was around, but if I'm stuck with a useless ability I might just shelve the character again.


You look to be out of luck. You'd be out of luck if you Qi-gong Monk'd out a ki ability with a chained monk. In a home game I can't imagine many GMs not allowing it, but I know that doesn't help you.

Have you played the character since you took the power? it is not locked in until you play it.

Have you leveled, because training out that level to rogue and back again would work, but would be more expensive (14 days instead of 5)


which qi powers are you wanting to trade out?

Liberty's Edge

Yes, I have played the PC 4 times since the rebuild. In all that time, no one has noticed that Formless Mastery only works against opponents who are using style feats.

"As long as he does not possess any style feat, the monk can spend 1 point from his ki pool as an immediate action to gain the following against opponents in the stance of a style feat:"

I interpreted "in the stance of a style feat" to mean that when using formless mastery, it worked like being in the stance of a style feat.

What they really meant was, "opponents in the stance of a style feat", that is, opponents who are using style feats.

Because I apparently mentally inserted a comma when I was reading the text it made the power seem to be a lot more useful than it actually is.

Had a interpreted it correctly, I would never have chosen such a narrow power. I can't see this coming up more than once, if at all in a PFS character's career.

I feel like I'm being harshly punished for an honest mistake because the classes after Ulitmate Campaign was published didn't bother to revisit the class feature retraining options.


If it is an honest mistake speak to your GM and possibly your local VC. They do actually have some discretion, especially where the rules are silent.

Standard retraining of a class feature seems more than fair, and backward compatibility not existing should be within the purview of GM/VC discretion. Whether it actually is or not may need them to make their own enquiries. It is worth asking.

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