Min Caster Level for Medium Scrolls?

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Short version: What's the minimum caster level for a Medium-written Scroll of Haste?

The earliest a "vanilla" medium can cast it is 7th (when it gets a 2nd level spell known.)

But a Medium channeling Hierophant or Archmage can cast a 2nd level spell at CL4. If they had it as a Spell Known (via Spell Matrix, for example.)

And a Medium channeling Champion with Spirit Focus and under Spirit Penalties would only have CL4 to cast it at 7th level.

[Mark Seifter]

Yeah medium's are weird. It's 7th because that is the earliest level that any medium can cast the spell haste, regardless of flavor. It would also be a psychic scroll if spell level was 2 and an arcane scroll if it was 3. The more interesting question is mirror image A medium channeling archmage could make an arcane scroll of mirror image with spell level 2 CL 4. A medium with it as a normal spell known could make a psychic scroll with spell level 2 CL 4.

A medium with champion spirit penalties like in your description can't actually cast his 2nd level spells, due to the CL penalty.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Ok, thanks. So a Medium with Mirror Image as a spell known through Archmage counts, but a Medium with Haste as a spell known through a Spell Lattice doesn't?

Edit: I called Spell Lattice a Spell Matrix originally.

[Mark Seifter]

Hmm, that question indicates that medium needs an FAQ to explain how it works with spell lattices. Excellent question!

The upshot is, as it seems you have indicated, that a medium with a spell lattice of haste still needs to be a 7th level medium to cast haste.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

A FAQ would be helpful. :)

If they have a Level 2 Spell Lattice for Haste, and are channeling Archmage, are you saying a level 4 Medium can't use a 2nd level Medium spell slot to cast Haste? It's a level 2 Medium spell known, and they have a 2nd level Medium slot?

[Mark Seifter]

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

A FAQ would be helpful. :)

If they have a Level 2 Spell Lattice for Haste, and are channeling Archmage, are you saying a level 4 Medium can't use a 2nd level Medium spell slot to cast Haste? It's a level 2 Medium spell known, and they have a 2nd level Medium slot?

Indeed, I thought you were saying that too. There's no way the others would have let me write something that got 2nd-level haste at 4th level again (like summoner), even if I had wanted to.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

I see Haste on the 2nd level spell list for Mediums, is that a typo?

I certainly assumed they could cast it with a Spell Lattice at 4th, I just wasn't sure if that meant they could write a 200gp CL4 scroll of it or not.

[Mark Seifter]

It is a 2nd-level spell. It requires you to be a 7th-level medium to cast it, when mediums get 2nd-level medium spells. The same (or the corresponding, anyway) is true for all other spells on the medium spell list. What makes it somewhat more confusing is the way the medium changes its spells per day. A FAQ would likely clear it up better; I'd have put it on my FAQ list with the other Occult FAQs, but I don't think anyone had mentioned it (that I saw) until now.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Yeah, that's not clear at all.

It sounds like if I take Mirror Image as my Archmage level 2 spell, I can cast it with a 2nd level slot, but if I have a Spell Lattice(Mirror Image) I can't cast it with a second level slot? And if I was channeling Hierophant, I couldn't cast it with the Lattice either? I definitely wouldn't have guessed that based on what's written. :)

[Mark Seifter]

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

Yeah, that's not clear at all.

It sounds like if I take Mirror Image as my Archmage level 2 spell, I can cast it with a 2nd level slot, but if I have a Spell Lattice(Mirror Image) I can't cast it with a second level slot? And if I was channeling Hierophant, I couldn't cast it with the Lattice either? I definitely wouldn't have guessed that based on what's written. :)

Yeah, I should've explained it better! I just hadn't thought of spell lattices when writing the explanation for what happens or I would've written it out in a step-by-step like I sometimes did for kineticist abilities when I was thinking of other specific stuff. Thanks for pointing that out.