If you have a warhammer made from adamantine with a wooden haft then when they try to sunder it it'll have adamantine stats, not wood stats. That's the way the game works.
my mistake. I stand corrected about the haft.
But I feel that a steel shield is still enough steel that it'd be all adamantine
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my mistake. I stand corrected about the haft.
But I feel that a steel shield is still enough steel that it'd be all adamantine
Yes - I don't know where people got the idea that a steel shield is really mostly wood. That's simply not so. I've used shields which are entirely metal except for a single leather strap.
Are you just thinking of Viking & Roman shields which were wood with a metal boss? Those are wooden shields in Pathfinder terms.
A wooden shield is mostly wood. But you can make it an adamantine weapon. You just rim and boss it, good to go.
A steel shield would be EXACTLY THE SAME THING. You rim it and boss it with adamantine on the striking surfaces. It is NOT an adamantine shield unless you specifically make it all from adamantine.
it's just an adamantine weapon.
It's probably easier to understand if you use 'spiked shields'.
Are wooden spiked shields all made of wood? Of course not. The spikes are metal.
But you can make the spikes out of silver, cold iron, mithral or adamantine.
Which means you now have an adamantine-spiked wooden shield.
An adamantine wooden shield is exactly the same thing, sans spikes. You just put the adamantine on the impact surfaces, exactly like you would the spikes. The rest of the shield is totally unaffected.
that's what you are arguing with 'adamantine priced as weapon'. You're basically saying "I want the adamantine of a spiked shield, but no spikes." Okay, here you go. it's still a steel shield.
I want the adamantine SHIELD, Everything.
==Aelryinth
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A wooden shield is mostly wood. But you can make it an adamantine weapon. You just rim and boss it, good to go.
A steel shield would be EXACTLY THE SAME THING. You rim it and boss it with adamantine on the striking surfaces. It is NOT an adamantine shield unless you specifically make it all from adamantine.
it's just an adamantine weapon.
It's probably easier to understand if you use 'spiked shields'.
Are wooden spiked shields all made of wood? Of course not. The spikes are metal.
But you can make the spikes out of silver, cold iron, mithral or adamantine.
Which means you now have an adamantine-spiked wooden shield.
An adamantine wooden shield is exactly the same thing, sans spikes. You just put the adamantine on the impact surfaces, exactly like you would the spikes. The rest of the shield is totally unaffected.
that's what you are arguing with 'adamantine priced as weapon'. You're basically saying "I want the adamantine of a spiked shield, but no spikes." Okay, here you go. it's still a steel shield.
I want the adamantine SHIELD, Everything.
==Aelryinth
You can't make a wooden shield out of adamantine, since it's not mostly metal.
@ Matthew Downie: Thank you for the FAQ link. It clears up a lot of intent regarding hardness with items involved with materials.
A wooden shield is mostly wood. But you can make it an adamantine weapon. You just rim and boss it, good to go.
A steel shield would be EXACTLY THE SAME THING. You rim it and boss it with adamantine on the striking surfaces. It is NOT an adamantine shield unless you specifically make it all from adamantine.
it's just an adamantine weapon.
It's probably easier to understand if you use 'spiked shields'.
Are wooden spiked shields all made of wood? Of course not. The spikes are metal.
But you can make the spikes out of silver, cold iron, mithral or adamantine.
Which means you now have an adamantine-spiked wooden shield.
An adamantine wooden shield is exactly the same thing, sans spikes. You just put the adamantine on the impact surfaces, exactly like you would the spikes. The rest of the shield is totally unaffected.
that's what you are arguing with 'adamantine priced as weapon'. You're basically saying "I want the adamantine of a spiked shield, but no spikes." Okay, here you go. it's still a steel shield.
I want the adamantine SHIELD, Everything.
==Aelryinth
Which makes sense. It doesn't adjust Hardness. It's difficult to say whether the increased HP would apply, since it only mentions "Weapons and Armor normally made of steel that are made of adamantine have one-third more hit points than normal." To err on the side of conservation, I'll say that it doesn't get the increased HP either.
A Steel Shield would be mostly metal, and therefore receives the Hardness 20 in addition to the HP increase, just like a Longsword, which is also mostly metal, would receive those same increases, which is what the FAQ says would apply.
Shield Spikes would not really alter the equation that much. It might make a Wooden Shield have more metal, but some may create Wooden Spikes onto the Wooden Shield, so there is that gray area as well.
Also remember that by RAW, Shield Spikes, when attached to a Shield, alters the Shield and Spikes when attached, to become a singular item: A Spiked Shield. And that's fair to rule that the Adamantine Spikes on the Wooden Shield would not increase the Hardness or HP any, because it doesn't alter the Spiked Wooden Shield to be normally made of steel.
But Steel Shields with Steel Shield Spikes? Yeah, that gets all the benefits, if both components are made of Adamantine.
@ Chess Pwn: If I can make Arrows out of Adamantine, which only contain Steel Arrowheads, and the rest are feathers and wood, then I can potentially make an Adamantine Wooden Shield with Adamantine boss.
A Heavy Steel shield weighs 15 lbs.
According to this, Adamantine costs 300gp/pound.
Since there is no "shield" entry under Adamantine, would it be reasonable to price it as 15*300 = 4500gp (plus the cost of the shield)?
which gets you very close to the default light armor area of +5000 gp.
YOu can put adamantine spikes on a wooden shield.
You can put adamantine on a wooden shield for purposes of bashing. It won't make the shield out of adamantine.
If suddenly you have a shield of steel, and are replacing everything, and it costs the exact same thing as just adding a rim and boss, that kind of breaks any argument you have of 'price adamantine as weapon' for a full adamantine shield.
Where'd you find the 300 gp/lb figure? Now that that's out there, I think we can absolutely agree on a final price.
==Aelryinth
which gets you very close to the default light armor area of +5000 gp.
YOu can put adamantine spikes on a wooden shield.
You can put adamantine on a wooden shield for purposes of bashing. It won't make the shield out of adamantine.If suddenly you have a shield of steel, and are replacing everything, and it costs the exact same thing as just adding a rim and boss, that kind of breaks any argument you have of 'price adamantine as weapon' for a full adamantine shield.
Where'd you find the 300 gp/lb figure? Now that that's out there, I think we can absolutely agree on a final price.
==Aelryinth
The link I provided is on the PRD, but apparently it's in Ultimate Equipment.
I found it because I remember a story about adventurers stealing the adamantine doors from a dungeon and selling them for mad loot. I was curious how they came up with the price for those doors, so one google search later and I found the answer in another thread on these forums :D.
Here's the link again in case it was overlooked: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/gear/entertainmentAndT radeGoods.html
ah, yes.
That's 1 lb of unforged adamantine able to be worked into something, NOT 1 lb of already worked adamantine already made into something.
The infamous mithral doors of Tomb of Horrors 2 come to mind. Several tons of mithral = millions of gp, steal them and you're rich, end the module now.
Heh.
==Aelryinth
You can put adamantine on a wooden shield for purposes of bashing.
Not by RAW. "Items without metal parts cannot be made from adamantine."
Where'd you find the 300 gp/lb figure? Now that that's out there, I think we can absolutely agree on a final price.
Adamantine weapon (and, by extension, shield) prices are not related to the weight of adamantine used. If they were, adamantine daggers would be a lot cheaper. Craftsmanship costs money. Adamantine alloy costs an abstract amount for the purposes of game balance.
Who says a wooden shield has no metal parts?
I've yet to see an all-wooden shield. It's mostly wood, but they are usually steel rimmed and bossed. Certainly if you add spikes, those are also metal. IT's definitely not a STEEL shield, however...it's wood with steel fittings.
So, it applies.
And for weight you are obviously wrong, or AC 4 light armor and AC 4 medium armor would cost exactly the same thing, since they take the same amount of skill, and Size L weapons would not cost twice what size M weapons do.
==Aelryinth
Adamantine Shields are priced just like any other weapon.'I sunder his axe with my shield!' 'WHAT?!'
More on point ... let's get spikes going. Are spikes even worth the trouble, or should we just stick with a flat smasher? And if so, wonder how they interact with a shield with weapon enchants.
This is a really good question that kinda got lost in the shuffle. I'm playing a shield basher myself and I'm curious about this as well. Any thoughts from the group on this?
Who says a wooden shield has no metal parts?
I've yet to see an all-wooden shield. It's mostly wood, but they are usually steel rimmed and bossed.
Good way to annoy a druid: "You're wearing a wooden shield? You lose all your druidic powers."
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This is a really good question that kinda got lost in the shuffle. I'm playing a shield basher myself and I'm curious about this as well. Any thoughts from the group on this?Adamantine Shields are priced just like any other weapon.'I sunder his axe with my shield!' 'WHAT?!'
More on point ... let's get spikes going. Are spikes even worth the trouble, or should we just stick with a flat smasher? And if so, wonder how they interact with a shield with weapon enchants.
People always assume that Shield Spikes are a separate entity from the Shield. I understand their point, but by the RAW, once the Shield Spikes are on the Shield, they combine and become a single item.
Here's the RAW in the Shield Spikes entry:
These spikes turn a shield into a martial piercing weapon and increase the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger than you (see “spiked shields” on Table: Weapons). You can't put spikes on a buckler or a tower shield. Otherwise, attacking with a spiked shield is like making a shield bash attack.
An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.
The bolded part is important. If the intent was that Shield Spikes were to be treated separately from the Shield, the RAW would simply read "shield spikes."
It's also important to note that the only mechanical benefit the Spikes grant is turns the damage type to Piercing (it's still otherwise normally a Martial weapon), and provides an Effective Size increase to the Shield's Damage Dice. I seriously wonder where people are getting this "Shield Spikes are enhanced separately from Shields" ruling, because it's not RAW, and I highly doubt it's RAI, or it would've been FAQ'd/Errata'd already.
If it was FAQ'd/Errata'd, then I'd be able to TWF with a single Shield, since I can bash with both the basic Shield, and the Spikes. They're both separate entities, and therefore count as two different weapons that I could TWF with. I'd also have to enhance and craft them separately as well. Hell, I don't even need a Spiked Shield to do that, by RAW, and it's quite obviously not intended for players to TWF with what should effectively be a single weapon, that doesn't possess the Double weapon quality.
Of course, it could just be people assuming Armor Spikes and Shield Spikes follow the same rules; but they don't.
Armor spikes deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can't also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes' effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right.
In this case, Armor Spikes are referenced as being an entity separate from the Armor they're attached to, and it also makes more sense mechanically to alter them as such. But it doesn't apply to Shield Spikes, or to be more accurate, a Spiked Shield.
Good way to annoy a druid: "You're wearing a wooden shield? You lose all your druidic powers."Who says a wooden shield has no metal parts?
I've yet to see an all-wooden shield. It's mostly wood, but they are usually steel rimmed and bossed.
I'm sure if a Druid was getting a wooden shield crafted, he'd make mention of not applying any sort of metal to it. Additionally, I'm sure he could go to a Druid covenant thing and get one specially crafted for him.
Or he could be smart about it and get it made out of Dragonhide. Or use a Scythe and be a martial badass.
There's plenty of other options for a Druid besides using a Shield, which, by the way, would hinder his casting options just as effectively as losing his powers.