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(Not sure if this falls under Advice or Rules, so feel free to move it.)
I'm playing a TWF-shield-focused Slayer and I'll be turning level 6 soon, and I'm confused as to how my shield actually works. I've scrounged the forums and found a lot of different opinions, which makes it even worse.
My main concern is that at level 6, I'll probably take the Shield Master feat, through my Slayer talent (I've taken the second-level tier as well), but I'm confused to the interaction between my shield and the shield spikes. From what I understand:
- Making my shield masterwork only subtracts 1 from my armour check penalty, and does nothing for offense, like a weapon would.
- I can't make my shield "double masterwork," meaning also spend 300 gp to give it a +1 to hit (I've seen posts and spoken to people who think you can).
- Shield Master feat does allow the enhancement bonus to attack and damage, like a real weapon does.
Now, I have shield spikes on my shield (a masterwork cold iron spiked +1 darkwood heavy wooden shield). I guess I'll have to actually enchant the shield spikes to make the enhancement count, as I'll be hitting with the nonmagical spikes, instead of the magical shield. Is this correct? If so, that means my cold iron spikes don't really do a lot for me, and I might be off buying a non-spiked shield.
And now the reason why I'm doubting whether to post this in Advice or Rules: what would you recommend for me if I switch shields? Should I save up for a Lion's Shield or grab a regular shield with the Bashing enchantment (or, a Lion's Shield with Bashing?)? Lion's Shield is only three times per day, but it could really add up with sneak attacks.
Furthermore, how could I add more enchantments to my shield? Say I want to make it Flaming, is that possible? Flaming can only be put on weapons, and a shield is technically a form of armour that can be used to attack. Is being listed in the Weapons table enough for it to count as a weapon, or do I actually need to put it on shield spikes?
Also, this has come up several times: do I threaten with a regular shield? The fact that I can shield bash with it (even without the required feats) would suggest I do. I presume I can't be disarmed of a heavy shield, because it's actually strapped to my arm.
I think I've covered everything I wanted to ask. Are there any other things I should look out for, or any good advice to know?
Thanks!
Would that mean I can enchant them with a +1 like a weapon? And would they stack with a +1 from defense, or are they on a separate track? Meaning, if I spend 1000 gp on a defensive enchant and 2000 gp on an offensive enchant, is it a +1/+1 shield?
(Corner case, I wouldn't need that as I'm using a feat for that, but now I'm curious.)
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Without Shield Master, they are completely separate tracks.
If you enchant it as a weapon, it does not improve your AC. Likewise, if you enchant it as armor, it does not improve your attack and damage rolls.
With Shield Master, you add the armor enhancement bonus to your attack and damage rolls just like it was a weapon enhancement bonus. However, if you've already enchanted it as a weapon, these bonuses don't stack, because they're both enhancement bonuses.
However, it does mean that you can enchant your shield as +5 armor and a +1 flaming weapon (which will cost 25,000gp and 8,000gp for a total of 33,000gp) and effectively have a +5 flaming weapon and +5 shield (a total 97,000gp value).
It also means that you could have up to +9 equivalent of special weapon enchantments while still getting the benefits of a +5 enhancement bonus weapon, for a weapon that acts as if it were +14 equivalent.
Cool, that's what I thought, thanks.
Now, only real question remaining (apart from which shield to get) is if the pluses from a magical shield are imparted if I have armor spikes, or if I should switch shields.
Could I theoretically detatch my shield spikes and sell them off separately, or are they a two-for-one package deal with my shield?
Are you asking if Shield Spikes and a Bashing shield stack? If so, I'm not sure if that was ever definitively clarified.
Expect table variation on whether you can detach your shield spikes. I'd allow it, but I'd expect most people to default to saying no.
Not necessarily if it stacks, but if the magical property of the shield transfers to the nonmagical spikes. I'd guess not.
Also, it's for PFS, so I need a definite yes or no for this. It's already a +1 shield, so replacing it isn't the end of the world, but still nice if I could keep the money.
Not necessarily if it stacks, but if the magical property of the shield transfers to the nonmagical spikes. I'd guess not.
Also, it's for PFS, so I need a definite yes or no for this. It's already a +1 shield, so replacing it isn't the end of the world, but still nice if I could keep the money.
Shield Spikes are not separate entities from the Shield they are attached.
From the PRD:
These spikes turn a shield into a martial piercing weapon and increase the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger than you (see “spiked shields” on Table: Weapons). You can't put spikes on a buckler or a tower shield. Otherwise, attacking with a spiked shield is like making a shield bash attack.
An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.
The bolded part says a Spiked Shield. Yes, your enhancements also apply to your spikes, but once you attach Spikes to a Shield, they become one item, and not separate entities. Also consider that many shields are metal or wooden, and are commonly hafted or forged together. It is because of this that many will tell you that you cannot just "take them off." I would say that you can pay half the price of applying the Shield Spikes to remove them, but that delves into RAI territory; RAW, if you apply Shield Spikes to a Shield, you cannot ever take them off, so be aware of this if you plan to make your crafted Shield your #1 priority.
Also, if you tried to stack Shield Spikes with a Bashing Shield, they will not stack. Both benefits are Effective Size bonuses, and Effective Size bonuses will not stack with themselves, the same that Actual Size bonuses won't stack with themselves. You can, however, have one Effective Size bonus, and one Actual Size bonus.
Thanks for the info on the shield spikes, should've found that on my own.
I never thought the Bashing property would increase my shield spikes even more, as the Bashing itself clearly states what the damage dice are: a Medium light shield thus deals 1d6 points of damage and a Medium heavy shield deals 1d8 points of damage.
I'd always presumed my max dice were 1d8, but thanks for the clarification.
Thanks for the info on the shield spikes, should've found that on my own.
I never thought the Bashing property would increase my shield spikes even more, as the Bashing itself clearly states what the damage dice are: a Medium light shield thus deals 1d6 points of damage and a Medium heavy shield deals 1d8 points of damage.
I'd always presumed my max dice were 1d8, but thanks for the clarification.
Yes, it states what the damage dice become, assuming Medium-sized Shields. That doesn't make them a fixed dice.
Small-sized Shields affected would make them 1D4 and 1D6, respectively. Ironically enough, without the Bashing property, they would be 1D2 and 1D3 damage, respectively.
However, a lot of people were stacking the Shield Spikes and Bashing property together to get 1D8 and 2D6 damage dice, because they assumed that the Shield Spikes benefit was a more 'inherent' benefit (since it was increased through mundane means, and not magical), and therefore should be grounds for stacking.
The FAQ cares not where the bonus comes from, or its source. An Effective Size Bonus is an Effective Size Bonus is an Effective Size Bonus; they don't stack together, end of story. Only one Effective Size Bonus and one Active Size Bonus can be applicable to a character at any given time (so yes, you can stack Enlarge Person and Bashing together for 2D6 damage dice).