Psychic Magic: Can it be detected "normally"?

[vodolaz7]

From Occult Adventures:

"Instead of verbal and somatic components, all psychic
spells have components related to the caster’s inner
being. The two psychic components are called emotion
components and thought components. If a spell’s
components line lists a somatic component, that spell
instead requires an emotion component when cast by
psychic spellcasters, and if it has a verbal component,
it instead requires a thought component when cast by
psychic spellcasters. Psychic spells cast by non-psychic
arcane and divine casters use any listed somatic and
verbal components as normal."

Additionally:

"Just as spell-like abilities never require verbal, somatic,
or material components, these abilities also don’t require
thought or emotion components. A psychic spellcaster
can replace verbal and somatic components with thought
and emotion components only for the purposes of the
spell components themselves, not for the purposes of
any other rules elements that relate to verbal and somatic
components."

So, barring a psychic magic user casting a spell that has somatic and verbal components as part of the effect (or what have you), is there a cue I'm missing that allows for another character to 1) know that a spell is being cast before the effect actually occurs and 2) who actually cast the spell in the case of a spell that otherwise has no listed cues?

This seems like an oversight more than a design decision, and any clarification is appreciated.

[Lost In Limbo]

Based on the fact that the Devs have said that even a Stilled, Silent spell will still be visible, I think that psychic magic is likely also apparent when used.

From the sounds of things casting magic in Pathfinder Land always comes with a bit of a laser lights show, so even if the guy standing in the middle of the display is just standing still looking at you, he's obviously the source of some sort of magic.

[Alex12]

Lost In Limbo wrote:

Based on the fact that the Devs have said that even a Stilled, Silent spell will still be visible, I think that psychic magic is likely also apparent when used.

From the sounds of things casting magic in Pathfinder Land always comes with a bit of a laser lights show, so even if the guy standing in the middle of the display is just standing still looking at you, he's obviously the source of some sort of magic.

The real question is would that be enough to counterspell a psychic magic spell? And if so, how? I don't think anyone's gonna argue that there's a visible/audible/whatever display, but the actual casting of the spell is literally just thinking at you.

[vodolaz7]

Lost In Limbo wrote:

Based on the fact that the Devs have said that even a Stilled, Silent spell will still be visible, I think that psychic magic is likely also apparent when used.

From the sounds of things casting magic in Pathfinder Land always comes with a bit of a laser lights show, so even if the guy standing in the middle of the display is just standing still looking at you, he's obviously the source of some sort of magic.

Thanks for mentioning Still and Silent, as that was part of my concern - I hadn't heard that comment regarding those feats, but it makes sense, and barring further dev commentary I think it's what our group will play with.

[Lost In Limbo]

Alex12 wrote:

Lost In Limbo wrote:

Based on the fact that the Devs have said that even a Stilled, Silent spell will still be visible, I think that psychic magic is likely also apparent when used.

From the sounds of things casting magic in Pathfinder Land always comes with a bit of a laser lights show, so even if the guy standing in the middle of the display is just standing still looking at you, he's obviously the source of some sort of magic.

The real question is would that be enough to counterspell a psychic magic spell? And if so, how? I don't think anyone's gonna argue that there's a visible/audible/whatever display, but the actual casting of the spell is literally just thinking at you.

Ah, but the whole point of the Stilled, Silent Spell issue is that even with those two metamagics in effect there is no penalty to identify the spell via spellcraft or to counter it.

And since psychic magic works exactly like the other two branches of magic except where otherwise specified we can only assume that the same rules about counterspelling are in effect.

Visually/dramatically, I would likely describe the countering of a psychic spell like a blast of energy shot from the psychic caster being deflected aside midair by another bolt from the counterspelling caster. Or something like that.

[Quandary]

fyi, all paizo's art depicting magic users shows a swirling aura of magical glyphs surrounding the caster. i.e. that appears while something is being cast, and should apply similarly to psychic magic. or SLAs for that matter. whatever, since still/silent don't matter, and spellcraft req's that you see something, there is something to be seen, irregardless of components. -> swirling mystical glyphs

[Quandary]

and afaik when Paizo discussed the possibility of them doing psychic magic/psionics, they ALWAYS said it would be "transparent" with normal magic, i.e. full detect/dispel/etc compatability.

[chaoseffect]

Quandary wrote:

and afaik when Paizo discussed the possibility of them doing psychic magic/psionics, they ALWAYS said it would be "transparent" with normal magic, i.e. full detect/dispel/etc compatability.

Doing anything else would be a massive mistake. From what I understand lack of transparency was an issue with "old" psionics, not Dreamscarred Press's, which helped to give psionics a poor reputation that newer incarnations of the system still unfairly have to struggle against. If only other psychics can stop/impede/identify psychic, then in a game world not based around psychics the lone psychic PC is king.

[Milo v3]

Actually even in 3.5e transparency between psionics and spellcasting was the default rule.

[chaoseffect]

Milo v3 wrote:

Actually even in 3.5e transparency between psionics and spellcasting was the default rule.

I never played old versions myself but I was told by people who did (or perhaps they were just idiots who did the rules wrong; knowing them it would be a distinct possibility) that there was at least one version that had lack of transparency and abilities that you were truly screwed against if you lacked psionics yourself. Perhaps I'm just repeating an urban legend then. Regardless lack of transparency would be a nightmare for the system.

[Hrothdane]

Even spell-like abilities (which have no components) can be detected, so I would think psychic magic could be detected too.

[Milo v3]

chaoseffect wrote:

I never played old versions myself but I was told by people who did (or perhaps they were just idiots who did the rules wrong; knowing them it would be a distinct possibility) that there was at least one version that had lack of transparency and abilities that you were truly screwed against if you lacked psionics yourself. Perhaps I'm just repeating an urban legend then. Regardless lack of transparency would be a nightmare for the system.

Maybe 3e or 2e psionics was like that (though I haven't heard it said personally), but I do know that some people simply didn't read the text that had the transparency information and thought that SR didn't apply to their powers.