Advanced Besitary Swarm Template

[Raphael]

The swarm template is extremely puzzling. It fails to say how big the swarm will be - instead, it tells you how small the individual creatures will be. Also, no advice on HD for the swarm. The swarms in the Bestiary have more hit points than the base creatures.

Is the swarm template completely lacking?

Or can anyone figure out how to apply it?

[Archaeik]

Raphael wrote:

It fails to say how big the swarm will be - instead, it tells you how small the individual creatures will be.

Creature Swarm wrote:

Space/Reach: A creature swarm occupies a square (if composed of nonflying creatures) or a cube (if composed of flying creatures) 10 feet on a side. Its reach is 0 feet. A swarm does not threaten creatures in its square and cannot make attacks of opportunity with its swarm attack.

This matches the standard space for swarms.

Swarm subtype

Raphael wrote:

Also, no advice on HD for the swarm. The swarms in the Bestiary have more hit points than the base creatures.

Quote:

A creature swarm uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Looks like HD remain unchanged.

Keep in mind this is 3rd party, so you might want to cross check the final creature against the bestiary guidelines for CR just to be sure it stacks up.

[Brf]

I am assuming you are referring to the Creature Swarm template.
The template does not tell you to change the base monster's HD, so you would use that.

[DM_Blake]

Undertsand that this template is not about taking a small thing, like an ant, and then making a swarm out of thousands of them.

The Creature Swarm template is about taking a big thing and re-making it as a bunch of smaller versions. Look at their sample creature. They took a Frost Worm (Huge magical beast from Bestiary 2) and turned it into a swarm of 6" versions of that original creature. In other words, it's not a swarm of thousands of huge frost worms, it's a swarm of thousands of diminutive versions of that, with a total HD that equals the original creature.

This template fails if you take something that is already diminutive with like 1/8 HD and 1 HP and then apply the template and you end up with a 10' square swarm of those, but the swarm has 1/8 HD and 1 HP and is worthless as a monster.

Instead, imagine a Tarrasque swarm comprised of thousands of hamster-sized tarrasques. Awesome!

[DM_Blake]

It's interesting that there is no "Swarm" template. No template to apply to your ordinary every-day ant or bee or spider to turn it into a swarm.

I assume this is because we don't actually have ordinary every-day vermin like that in the bestiary. We don't need stat blocks for an ant because an ant doesn't have enough of a CR to be an encounter for an adventuring party. Unless you're playing "A Bug's Life" as a campaign, then it might become relevant, but for that, you'll need more than adjustment to the bestiary.

So we have a Swarm sub-type that lets us grab ordinary every-day vermin that can't really challenge even a solo 1st level adventurer, and make a swarm out of them that can definitely be a challenge. No template required because "Swarm" is basically just a creature with a couple unusual rules.

Which is why Swarm Creature is not intended to do that; it has its own purpose as I noted above.

[Raphael]

I wanted to make a Quipper swarm for my moat. Quippers are the cold-water piranhas from Tome of Horrors (and from AD&D products before that).

But I see your point that the Creature Swarm template isn't really designed to be applied to little 1 hp fishes.

Your answer really helped put it in perspective. Thanks.

[DM_Blake]

Monsters are funny.

You know the quipper is not really much of a piranha since it's the size of a fly. Or a minnow. Right?

If I were you, I would use the stat block for Army Ant Swarm and swap out the Consume for the Frenzy and leave the rest unchanged.