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I am a Bladebound Magus; my weapon is currently +3. I can use 1 point from my arcane pool to add +3 to whatever weapon I happen to be wielding, so I can make my adamatine scimitar +3, but I can only change my black blade from +3 to +5. I could then spend 5 more points to make my black blade vorpal, for a total enhancement of +10.
Or I could put Shocking Burst (+2) and Keen (+1) on in addition to +5.
On a side note, using arcane points to make the weapon +3 or better does not allow the weapon to bypass DR (except DR/magic). It works like the spell Enchant Weapon.
@TGMinMaxer, the +5 applies only to to hit/damage. Otherwse, the magus would never be able to use vorpal.
EDIT: It would take me 3 rounds to get a +5 Keen Shocking Burst black blade. Spending an arcane pool point s a swift action.
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@TGMinMaxer, you're right again! I'll need to sit down with my GM.
GMW is the exception, and is called out as an exception because if it were a "true" enhancement bonus (and mind you, I hate that we have "enhancement bonuses that count" and "enhancement bonuses that don't count"), it would be cheaper to just cast GMW on your weapon every day and not invest mucho gp in your weapon to actually give it that enhancement bonus.
I didn't need to buy that adamantine scimitar!
So regarding the Magus' Arcane Pool, the Magus has the ability to enhance his weapon: At 1st level, a magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.
At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, keen, shock, shocking burst, speed, or vorpal.
So, the 'spirit" of the text seems to imply that you can add up to +5 with whatever enhancements already exists (up to a maximum of +10 considering by rules no weapon can exceed that).
However, by the text it says you can only reach a maximum of +5 including the weapon enhancement itself (So if I was wielding a +1 weapon I could only add +4 in enhancements).
So basically if we follow text as written even though you can add vorpal you can never actually add vorpal because a weapon has to have a +1 enhancement on it before all other enhancements and you can only add to a maximum of +5. So which is it?
The Arcane Pool itself eventually caps at +5 worth of enchantments. The maximum equivalent enhancement of any weapon is +10. So if I had a +3 holy weapon, a 17th level Magus could still add Vorpal.
I am a Bladebound Magus; my weapon is currently +3. I can use 1 point from my arcane pool to add +3 to whatever weapon I happen to be wielding, so I can make my adamatine scimitar +3, but I can only change my black blade from +3 to +5. I could then spend 5 more points to make my black blade vorpal, for a total enhancement of +10.
Arcane Pool doesn't work like that. From your information it seems that you are between 9th and 12th level. At those levels you can spend one point to add a total of +3 worth of enchantments. You are not allowed to spend five more points to get Vorpal. You won't be able to get Vorpal until you reach at least 17th level and can add a total of +5 worth of enhancements. At that point you will still be spending just one point from your Arcane Pool for the whole +5 boost.
(Note that there are a few Magus Arcana that do allow you to spend an extra point to add abilities: Bane Blade, Devoted Blade, etc., but those are specific exceptions to the normal rules.)
Or I could put Shocking Burst (+2) and Keen (+1) on in addition to +5.
You can not have a +5 Shocking Burst Keen Blackblade at your level. If the Blade is +3 and you can only add +3, you could have a +5 Keen Blade since that uses up all the +6 enhancements that you have available. Or you could have a +3 Shocking Burst Keen Blade. But a +5 Shocking Burst Keen Blackblade would require your Arcane Pool to provide a +5 bonus which won't happen until you are 17th level.
On a side note, using arcane points to make the weapon +3 or better does not allow the weapon to bypass DR (except DR/magic). It works like the spell Enchant Weapon.
There isn't a spell called Enchant Weapon. You are probably thinking of the spell Greater Magic Weapon which does have a clause saying that it doesn't overcome DR other than DR/magic. Arcane Pool doesn't have that issue. Arcane pool enhancements stack with permanent enhancements to overcome DR. It's one of the great things about being a Magus.
EDIT: It would take me 3 rounds to get a +5 Keen Shocking Burst black blade. Spending an arcane pool point s a swift action.
You can't stack Arcane Pool enhancements. Each time you use Arcane Pool to enhance a weapon, any previous enhancements end. So imagine that I have a +2 rapier and I spend a point of my Arcane Pool to add +3 to the enhancement. It is a +5 weapon for that round. The next round I spend a point of my Arcane Pool to get the Shocking Burst and Keen abilities. The +3 enhancement from the last round immediately ends and I will be holding a +2 Shocking Burst Keen rapier.
@TGMinMaxer, you're right again! I'll need to sit down with my GM.
GMW is the exception, and is called out as an exception because if it were a "true" enhancement bonus (and mind you, I hate that we have "enhancement bonuses that count" and "enhancement bonuses that don't count"), it would be cheaper to just cast GMW on your weapon every day and not invest mucho gp in your weapon to actually give it that enhancement bonus.I didn't need to buy that adamantine scimitar!
Being a Bladebound Magus means never having to spend money on weapons. :)
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Being a Bladebound Magus means never having to spend money on weapons. :)@TGMinMaxer, you're right again! I'll need to sit down with my GM.
GMW is the exception, and is called out as an exception because if it were a "true" enhancement bonus (and mind you, I hate that we have "enhancement bonuses that count" and "enhancement bonuses that don't count"), it would be cheaper to just cast GMW on your weapon every day and not invest mucho gp in your weapon to actually give it that enhancement bonus.I didn't need to buy that adamantine scimitar!
A +1 darkwood longbow rated for you strength is still a good thing to have. Cheap (at level 12 at least) and useful. You get a ranged magic weapon and can enhance it if needed.
A +1 darkwood longbow rated for you strength is still a good thing to have. Cheap (at level 12 at least) and useful. You get a ranged magic weapon and can enhance it if needed.Being a Bladebound Magus means never having to spend money on weapons. :)@TGMinMaxer, you're right again! I'll need to sit down with my GM.
GMW is the exception, and is called out as an exception because if it were a "true" enhancement bonus (and mind you, I hate that we have "enhancement bonuses that count" and "enhancement bonuses that don't count"), it would be cheaper to just cast GMW on your weapon every day and not invest mucho gp in your weapon to actually give it that enhancement bonus.I didn't need to buy that adamantine scimitar!
Very true. I was joking around a bit. I didn't literally mean that you shouldn't have backup weapons of any kind. But between the Black Blade, Greater Magic Weapon, and Arcane Pool, a Bladebound Magus can spend less on their weapons than just about any other front line combatant.
But every character should have alternative weapons including at least one ranged weapon. I personally think it is also a good idea for every character to have a good dagger on their belt in case you get swallowed whole or caught in a net.
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As getting a adamantine black blade would require purposely (or, you know, "accidentally")destroying it and then reforging it, something that I don't think a sentient weapon wouldn't like at all, a adamantine weapon (for the ability to cut through items with less than 20 hardness) can be useful.
My preferred back up weapon is a adamantine dagger.
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@Gisher:
I most certainly can have multiple enhancements on the same weapon. Here is the relevant text. I can also spend 5 points to make my weapon vorpal, if I so choose. Now, if I were wielding some other weapon, I could not make it +3 and then +5. But nothing in the description says (at least in my reading) that I cannot put two different enhancements on the same weapon. One might interpret the last sentence to mean that I cannot put two different enhancements on the same weapon, but if that were the case, then I could not put any enhancement on a nonmagical weapon, because as soon as I tried, the other enhancement would cease.
At 1st level, a magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.
At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, keen, shock, shocking burst, speed, or vorpal.
Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier. These properties are added to any the weapon already has, but duplicates do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. These bonuses and properties are decided when the arcane pool point is spent and cannot be changed until the next time the magus uses this ability. These bonuses do not function if the weapon is wielded by anyone other than the magus.
A magus can only enhance one weapon in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends.
(emphasis mine)
@Gisher:
I most certainly can have multiple enhancements on the same weapon. Here is the relevant text. I can also spend 5 points to make my weapon vorpal, if I so choose. Now, if I were wielding some other weapon, I could not make it +3 and then +5. But nothing in the description says (at least in my reading) that I cannot put two different enhancements on the same weapon. One might interpret the last sentence to mean that I cannot put two different enhancements on the same weapon, but if that were the case, then I could not put any enhancement on a nonmagical weapon, because as soon as I tried, the other enhancement would cease.At 1st level, a magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.
At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, keen, shock, shocking burst, speed, or vorpal.
Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier. These properties are added to any the weapon already has, but duplicates do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. These bonuses and properties are decided when the arcane pool point is spent and cannot be changed until the next time the magus uses this ability. These bonuses do not function if the weapon is wielded by anyone other than the magus.
A magus can only enhance one weapon in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends.
You missed a couple of key sentences here, which I've emphasized for you.
All that "..but duplicates do not stack" means is that if the weapon is already naturally flaming, you cannot make it flaming x2, or vorpal x2, or any other effect x2.
The +X amount gained from the ability is used to add (+1 enhancement if the weapon does not naturally have a +1 enhancement) then any other combination of +enhancements or various weapon properties up to X.
I'm afraid that you have a lot of misconceptions about the Arcane Pool ability. So I'm going to go through most of the Arcane Pool text, but somewhat out of order. Please bear with me because I promise this is really is the way Arcane Pool works.
(For clarity I'm going to ignore the Magus Arcana that I mentioned in my earlier post. They aren't really relevant here and would only add confusion.)
At 1st level, a magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level.
So you can spend 1 point as a swift action.
At 1st level that 1 point buys you a +1 enhancement bonus that lasts one minute.
At 5th level that 1 point buys you a +2 enhancement bonus that lasts one minute.
At 9th level that 1 point buys you a +3 enhancement bonus that lasts one minute.
At 13th level that 1 point buys you a +4 enhancement bonus that lasts one minute.
At 17th level that 1 point buys you a +5 enhancement bonus that lasts one minute.
So at 9th level you can add a maximum of +3 worth of bonus to one weapon. You can't spend more than one point to get more bonus because the rule says "1 point." (Again, I am ignoring those Magus Arcana for now).
Whether you spend that bonus on enhancements or special abilities or a mix of both, the moment that you spend the point you immediately get to apply all of the bonus that you are allowed. So at 9th level you get the entire +3 all at once.
You don't need to add +1 this round and then spend more points the next rounds to add the other pluses. Even if you wanted to add the three points over three rounds, you couldn't because of these rules.
Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.
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If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends.
If you try to add a second set of Arcane Pool bonuses, the first set ceases to function.
I will rephrase the example that I gave before.
Imagine that I have a +2 rapier in my hand. The first round of combat, I use my swift action and spend one point to add +3 to the enhancement. For this round and 9 more I will have a +5 weapon unless I end this use of Arcane Pool.
The next round I decide that I really want to have the Shocking Burst and Keen abilities. I can't just convert the existing set of enhancements because of this rule.
These bonuses and properties are decided when the arcane pool point is spent and cannot be changed until the next time the magus uses this ability
If I want different abilities, then I have to use the Arcane Pool ability again. So I use my swift action and spend another point to give my weapon those properties (which add up to a +3 bonus). When I spend the Arcane Pool point, the +3 bonus from my first use immediately ends. So I am not holding a +5 Shocking Burst Keen rapier; I will just be holding a +2 Shocking Burst Keen rapier. The Shocking Burst and Keen abilities will last for this round and 9 more unless I again end the ability prematurely.
You can not stack multiple uses of your Arcane Pool with itself. There is no way around this. Ever.
So if a 9th level Magus only has a +3 bonus and can't stack more on top, then how will the character be able to use Vorpal which has a +5 equivalent bonus? The answer is that a 9th level Magus can't add Vorpal. You have to be at least 17th level to afford Vorpal.
Earlier you bolded this part of the ability:
At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, keen, shock, shocking burst, speed, or vorpal.
That does make it seem like you can add Vorpal starting at 5th level. But the next part of the rule prevents that from happening.
Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier.
You must have a +5 Arcane Pool bonus to add Vorpal. At 9th level you can only grant your weapon a +3 bonus with one use of Arcane Pool, and you can't stack consecutive uses so there is no way to get a +5 Arcane Pool bonus if you are below 17th level. Note that even a 17th level Magus can't add Vorpal to a non-magical weapon. It would have to have a +1 enhancement bonus already.
If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added.
I hope that clarifies things a bit. This really is how Arcane Pool works. A 5th level Magus or even a 9th level Magus isn't supposed to be able to add a +5 equivalent Special Ability even temporarily.
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You know, I used to consider myself a reasonably intelligent individual. I begin to wonder...
So, if I finally got this through my reinforced concrete skull, I can make my +3 black blade a +5 Keen weapon by spending 1 arcane pool point. Or I could make it a +4 Flaming Burst weapon. Or I could make it a +4 Keen Flaming weapon, or a +3 Speed weapon. But I cannot access Dancing or Vorpal enhancements because the former is +4 and the latter is +5
Thank you for the explanation.
You know, I used to consider myself a reasonably intelligent individual. I begin to wonder...
For what it's worth, I had the same misconceptions when I first read the Magus description. It seemed so logical.
So, if I finally got this through my reinforced concrete skull, I can make my +3 black blade a +5 Keen weapon by spending 1 arcane pool point. Or I could make it a +4 Flaming Burst weapon. Or I could make it a +4 Keen Flaming weapon, or a +3 Speed weapon. But I cannot access Dancing or Vorpal enhancements because the former is +4 and the latter is +5
I think you have it!
Thank you for the explanation.
You are welcome.
And now that you have the basics worked out, you should take a look at the Magus Arcana like Ghost Blade, Devoted Blade, and Bane Blade. They allow you to spend more than 1 Arcane Pool point to add new special ability options.
For instance, with Ghost Blade you can spend 2 points when activating Arcane Pool, and in return you get to add Ghost Touch and Brilliant Energy to your list of options. You still have to spend your bonus points to add them to your weapon so Brilliant Energy isn't an option until 13th level. Right now though, you could make your Black Blade into, say, a +4 Keen Ghost Touch weapon.
For a Bladebound Magus, these can be good options. A regular Magus can just upgrade his scimitar with the Holy Special Ability, but you can't add permanent special abilities to a Black Blade. Bane Blade is especially nice since the extra point you spend just gives you Bane on top of your other enhancements. (So basically this one case works the way you thought they all did.) For other ways to temporarily add special abilities to your Black Blade, you might want to take a look at my little list.