Spell-like Abilities based on Racial HIt Dice (Where there are none)

[Raphael]

I've applied the fungal creature template to a human druid, thereby changing his type to "plant (augmented)".

I've then applied the green warden template to my new plant creature.

The druid receives spell-like abilities from the green warden template.

As per the template description:

"Spell-like Abilities: A green warden gains the following spell-like abilities. The caster level equals the green warden's racial HD. The save DCs are Charisma-based."

Here's the problem: the creature I've created doesn't have any racial hit dice.

How do I determine caster level??

[Jeraa]

If they have no racial hit dice, they have no caster level, and so have no spell-like abilities from green warden.

Alternatively, as they are no longer humanoid, they no longer get to exchange their one racial hit die for a class level, and therefore would have at least 1 racial hit die.

Quote:

Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class.

[Raphael]

Jeraa wrote:

If they have no racial hit dice, they have no caster level, and so have no spell-like abilities from green warden.

Alternatively, as they are no longer humanoid, they no longer get to exchange their one racial hit die for a class level, and therefore would have at least 1 racial hit die.

Quote:

Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class.

Thanks. That makes sense. Somehow I think the author of the template didn't consider the possibility that something might gain the template with no racial HD. But I like your suggestion about the 1 HD consolation.

[cartmanbeck]

I'm not sure if it's totally RAW, but I would say they should default to 1 HD, because that's what a human has before taking class levels. But it would never increase unless you add a template that increases racial HD.

[kestral287]

Raphael wrote:

Jeraa wrote:

If they have no racial hit dice, they have no caster level, and so have no spell-like abilities from green warden.

Alternatively, as they are no longer humanoid, they no longer get to exchange their one racial hit die for a class level, and therefore would have at least 1 racial hit die.

Quote:

Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class.

Thanks. That makes sense. Somehow I think the author of the template didn't consider the possibility that something might gain the template with no racial HD. But I like your suggestion about the 1 HD consolation.

It's less "didn't consider the possibility" and more "didn't want the possibility", in all likelihood.

The Half-Dragon has the same issue, with its breath weapon tied to its racial hit dice. That's something that had to be changed from 3.5, so there's a strong case for reading it as an intentional decision. Same thing here.

[Raphael]

I wish I'd get an official Paizo ruling on this.

The other day I saw Paizo freelancer Michael Kortes on the street, and asked him. He thought it was clearly an oversight, although he said his opinion mattered little.

[Claxon]

I think the point was that humanoids weren't intended to work well with these sorts of things.

In this specific case, a Green Warden is only supposed to be applied to a plant. You've used another template to turn a humanoid into a plant, creature, so it's no surprise when everything doesn't work out and play well together.

However, as a GM you can do whatever you want. Get it a caster level equal to hit dice, not just racial hit dice. It's a monster, it doesn't necessarily need to follow the rules.

[Dave Justus]

The simple answer, is if you are the DM, make it what you want that you think fits for the creature you are trying to create.