If I charge with a lance while using Spirited Charge and score a critical hit, do I effectively deal 9d8 damage?
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No, only 6d8.
Medium character:
1d8 base
Lance while riding a charging mount:
2d8 (double damage)
Lance while riding a charging mount with Spirited Charge:
4d8 (double damage + triple damage is only quadruple damage)
Criting while using a lance with Spirited Charge while riding a charging mount:
6d8 (double damage + triple damage + triple damage is only hextuple damage)
Explanation:
Double damage is base 1d8 + an additional 1d8
Triple damage is base 1d8 + an additional 2d8
Double + triple damage would be 1d8 base + 1d8 additional from double + 2d8 additional from triple
Double + triple + triple would be 1d8 base + 1d8 additional from double + 2d8 additional from each triple (4d8), for a grand total of 6d8
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Uh, think you made a mistake there Kinevon.
Charging Lance is x2
Spirited Charge is x2
Critical Hit with Lance is x3
Final Multiplier is x5.
Bringing the total to 5d8 + (Flat numbers[non-Precision Damage] x 5)
Page 12 of the Core Rulebook:
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
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Uh, think you made a mistake there Kinevon.
Charging Lance is x2
Spirited Charge is x2
Critical Hit with Lance is x3Final Multiplier is x5.
Bringing the total to 5d8 + (Flat numbers[non-Precision Damage] x 5)
Page 12 of the Core Rulebook:
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
Spirited Charge says it is x3 with a lance:
Benefit: When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).
I can see it as replacing the normal double damage when using a lance mounted, but it is not as clear on that as I would like. Maybe if the parenthetical said "(so this would result in triple damage when using a lance)"
The x3 with the lance is inclusive of the lance double damage. It doesn't need a parenthetical. The reason it states that is because otherwise it wouldn't stack with the lance at all. Unfortunately it seems to cause its own issues.
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The x3 with the lance is inclusive of the lance double damage. It doesn't need a parenthetical. The reason it states that is because otherwise it wouldn't stack with the lance at all. Unfortunately it seems to cause its own issues.
Why wouldn't it stack?
They are untyped effects from different sources.
Start with the base (x3) of the Lance.
Increase that by one (x4) for the Charge.
Increase that by one (x5) for Spirited Charge.
This seems to make the most sense. Otherwise, the 5th level gnome paladin I made would be able to deal 9d8+27 damage on a charge critical hit, and that's without weapon bonuses, smite evil, etc...
Ok so what happens in these three cases?
1. You use vital strike
2. You power attack
3. You smite evil
Apply all three of these to the situation discussed above, please!
Thanks for the feedback, btw.
You can't Charge and Vital Strike.
True enough - ty and disregard that portion of the question. :D
For the other parts of your question, the bonus from power attack and/or smite evil get multiplied like the rest of your damage.
Ok, so say I charge with spirited charge and wielding a lance, I have +3 str, +1 weapon, +5 smite, and +2 power attack, and I score a critical hit, the damage would be...
5d8+55? [(3+1+5+2)x5]
Power Attack would be +3, not +2, but yes, total the static damage bonuses and multiply them by x5.
Is the +3 due to the lance being two handed? The lance in this case would be held in one hand, with a shield in the other.
Nefreet linked to a FAQ on that: Lances are special, even when they're being wielded one handed on a mount, they get the benefits as if they were wielded with two hands. (All of the other abilities that I know of that allow you to wield a two handed weapon in one hand explicitly state that you treat the weapon as if it were a one handed weapon.)Power Attack would be +3, not +2, but yes, total the static damage bonuses and multiply them by x5.Is the +3 due to the lance being two handed? The lance in this case would be held in one hand, with a shield in the other.
Thanks for the clarification!
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One other note: If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. And, as it changes the amount of damage done, rather than multiples it, it would be multiplied by 5 in this case, as well, for another 25 points of damage...
5d8+85 for that first attack, 5d8+60 for later attacks, if needed, given the numbers quoted earlier.
Thanks for the clarification!Nefreet linked to a FAQ on that: Lances are special, even when they're being wielded one handed on a mount, they get the benefits as if they were wielded with two hands. (All of the other abilities that I know of that allow you to wield a two handed weapon in one hand explicitly state that you treat the weapon as if it were a one handed weapon.)Power Attack would be +3, not +2, but yes, total the static damage bonuses and multiply them by x5.Is the +3 due to the lance being two handed? The lance in this case would be held in one hand, with a shield in the other.
Just for clarification, you may wield a lance one-handed when mounted, but you only get to add only your 1x str modifier into damage. In order to get the 1.5x str modifier it has to be wielded in two hands. This is covered it the rules:
Wielding a Weapon Two-Handed: When you deal damage with a weapon that you are wielding two-handed, you add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus (Strength penalties are not multiplied). You don't get this higher Strength bonus, however, when using a light weapon with two hands.
For example, you could wield a one-handed weapon like the long sword in both hands and get the 1.5x str modifier added into your damage instead of the normal 1x str damage per the rule above. Normally you could not wield a two-handed weapon in one hand, but the rules for the lance are different and allow you to wield it in one hand while mounted, but no more than that. It does just as it says. Saying you can add the 1.5x str damage to it while wielding it in one handed is technically adding to the rules of it or home ruling as it is called.
Now the faq mentioned by Nefreet only covers the power attack bonus you get and only that.