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I'm playing my 3rd PFS scenario soon and once hitting 2nd level I have 4 levels worth of credit (from Dragon's Demand) that I'm adding to raise the character to 6th level.
The character is a Cleric, deity Urgathoa, and I'm focusing on high Wis and Guided Hand with a Spell-Storing scythe for the most part. Negative channels will be party heals with Death's Kiss ability from Undead subdomain or a part of my melee attack with Channel Smite to add additional damage.
I'm a bit stuck on whether I should dump strength to raise Int and Charisma to 12 or to keep all 3 stats at 10 (no stat dumping). Gear wise I'm thinking of a Mithral Agile-Breastplate, Mithral buckler, and either an Adamantine or Mithral scythe (not 100% sure though as these options are an extra 3-5k gold). I could always prep Ant Haul if necessary which could last 24 hours with an extend metamagic rod....but I'm still taking penalties in some areas with the -2 str mod.
Str:7
Dex:12
Con:14
Int:12
Wis:19
Cha:12
-2 to dmg, -2 penalty to Str based skills, touch attacks, CMB & CMD, and possibly other things I'm forgetting at the moment. But... +1 to Charisma based skills, +1 Negative Channel per day, +1 language, +1 to Int based skills, +1 skill point per level.
Note: No issues with attack bonus, because of low Strength, since Guided Hand uses your Wisdom mod as attack bonus.
Str:10
Dex:12
Con:14
Int:10
Wis:19
Cha:10
No penalties to Str based skills, touch attacks, CMB or CMD. Lose out on the benefits of Int and Cha bonuses that Option #1 has.
I'm not focusing on Negative Channeling but I can't bring myself to dump Charisma though as I want this character to be "physically appealing," since Charisma affects looks, and I want her to be somewhat persuasive. I'm currently leaning towards Option #1 but not sure if it'll be a bad mistake. What would you choose?
If you want to be a REAL caster cleric... then channeling has to take a back seat permanently.
Take CHA back to 10, put STR at 8 (you will need to make the odd touch attack), scale CON back to 12 or poss 10 (you arent going to be as frontline as an average cleric), get your DEX up a bit (Initiative and some range touch ability is vital) and get your INT up too (14 should do - as a pure caster some skills will come in more useful)..
Whether you take +1HP or +1 skill point is down to your prioritisation
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I don't believe Clerics can take Inquisitions in PFS. I feel that taking the Undead and Blood domains give me a good list of domain spells also. Ghoul Touch, Vampiric Touch, Enervation, Wall of Thorns, and Blade Barrier.
Both options have 19 Wisdom, that should be a fairly strong Wisdom score for a caster Cleric.
I'll let the cat out of the bag here with my plan.
With Urgathoa as my deity I can prepare Ghoul Touch as a Cleric spell at 2nd level. With a spell-storing scythe and persistent Ghoul Touch (prepared as a 3rd level spell, thank you Magical Lineage) I'll hit my target and most likely paralyze them as long as they are a humanoid that's not immune to fort saves. After paralyzing them I take a full round action to Coup de Grace them with my x4 crit scythe.
I've got a number of ways to do this, either storing Persist Ghoul Touch in my scythe or using it as a normal touch attack with an Inflict or Slay Living spell stored in the scythe. I could channel smite or get grayflame added to my scythe to increase damage to make enemies have no chance to succeed their fort save vs death. So channels could be useful and grayflame enchant looks pretty good since it gives +1 bonus to weapon atk/dmg and 1d6 divine damage for x rounds...at the cost of 1 channel it essentially gives +2 enchantment worth.
Traits -
Divine Favor
Magical Lineage: Ghoul Touch
Feats -
1) Channel Smite
Human) Fey Foundling
3) Guided Hand
5) Persistent Spell metamagic
7) Combat Casting
9) Spell Penetration
11) Divine Interference
Other stuff -
Strength could be important with touch attacks, otherwise guided hand gives me a very decent to-hit bonus with my scythe.
Charisma is useful if I use channel smite with coup de graces or if I pickup the grayflame enchant for my scythe, which I might. Not tanking Charisma also means I'm useful outside of combat as most people have a horrible diplomacy skill.
Higher Int is helpful for flavor, too little limits a character's options but too high means other stats suffer since Int pretty much only helps knowledges, spellcraft, linguistics, and extra skill points for a Cleric.
I may be near the front line with touch spells and with a spell-storing scythe. (I know there's reach metamagic rods and I have access to Spectral Hand 1/day so I'll be using them at times but they are limited by uses per day and higher reach metamagic rods could be really expensive for 5th, 6th, etc spells.)
Just a really quick calculation of my to-hit bonus with a Scythe at 9th level I'm looking at +19/+14 (BAB 6/1, Divine Favor +4, Wis mod +7, weapon +2) with a full attack. Bard or other buffer near it'd be even higher.
Just going for really high wisdom for save or die spells but wanting to be melee capable (Low Str and no Power Attack my scythe dmg will be low but the major damage would be coming from Channel Smite or the spell stored in the scythe, like 12d6+CL dmg with a stored "Slay Living" for example.)
I'm starting out at 6th level in PFS (Stored credit being added to my 2nd level character.)
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This is the lay out I would use. I would trade the Con for Int as well to bump up skill points up to 4 per level, and giving you 5 base +1 Con Mod +1 Favored Class = 7 HP per level. With trading Combat Casting at level 7 for Toughness. Bumps you up to 8 HP per level.
Str:7
Dex:12
Con:14
Int:12
Wis:19
Cha:12
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This is the lay out I would use. I would trade the Con for Int as well to bump up skill points up to 4 per level, and giving you 5 base +1 Con Mod +1 Favored Class = 7 HP per level. With trading Combat Casting at level 7 for Toughness. Bumps you up to 8 HP per level.
Str:7
Dex:12
Con:14
Int:12
Wis:19
Cha:12
Humans get +1 skill point per level so with 12int I'm already at 4 skill points per level.
Reason why I added Combat Casting is I may be doing a lot of melee casting. After my initial touch spell cast and moving in to deliver any round after that I either have to 5ft back and cast and be out of touch delivering range or I stay in threatened range and cast defensively and try to deliver the spell immediately. At level 6 I'm already at a +12 concentration check but I'd need a 21 to cast defensively for a 3rd level spell. Dropping the margin of error down may be worth the Combat Casting feat I'm thinking...I could be wrong?
I'm planning to pickup a +2 Con/Dex belt later on to help increase both of those stats slightly.
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Spell-Storing scythe for the most part.
Don't That is not a Caster focused Cleric.
Spiritual Weapon and Ally make great spells. For 3k You can get a rod of toppling for when fighting Trippable opponents like humanoids with a Toppling Spiritual Weapon. You will also be surprised on how effective the spell is at hitting constantly as a caster cleric.
For stats I would go with:
Str: 8, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 12, Wis: 19, Cha 10
Channeling has nothing to do with Wisdom and a Oracle will be better at it all day and every day. Forget about unless you're in a Position to use it. Being surrounded or Grappled being key places since it does not provoke AoO when using it. Especially since you're Not going to break a grapple at any time unless you use the Trait Wisdom in the flesh to get escape artist.
Never swing a real weapon. My cleric will take something like an Adamantine Morningstar and a Potion of Magic weapon. I pass it off to open doors and when people forget that Adamantine is amazing against constructs. Silence on it also acts like a silent Master key option. If your wanting to swing a weapon your going to need a 13-16 str depending on how much self buffing you want to do. But most people find in PFS that things die before you can lay down lots of buffs. But at this point you are NOT a caster cleric. If you want to swing a "weapon" use spiritual weapon, summon something, or use divine trident/Gozreh Trident.
I do not recommend Channel feats at all. Channel smite is Blah at best and you're not an Oracle. Channeling is Blah for you unless you go with AoE daze builds and that is a entirely different concept of character than a caster cleric.
I like Improved initiative as it gives you option to buff early or plan out your turn.
When I play a caster cleric I really like the Evangelist Archetype as I love the enchantment based spells they can use. Command is abuse worthy. And suggestion just plain rocks. Can easily prevent damage and give teammates extra attacks if all is laid out right. Also Bardic Performance makes it almost not necessary to prepare many buff spells. (I carry a wand of Bless 2pp) and prepare a Prayer for big fights. Communal Resist energy and Protection from evil...but that tends to be about it the rest is used as offense like command, spiritual weapon, summon monster.
For healing a Wand of Cure light wounds is 2pp and solid investment. Always look for 8 or less charges of Lesser restoration on your chronicle sheets as they are worth the investment.
Hope some of that helps you guide your character and narrow him down a bit into the caster role.
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`Spell-Storing scythe for the most part.Don't That is not a Caster focused Cleric.
Spiritual Weapon and Ally make great spells. For 3k You can get a rod of toppling for when fighting Trippable opponents like humanoids with a Toppling Spiritual Weapon. You will also be surprised on how effective the spell is at hitting constantly as a caster cleric.
For stats I would go with:
Str: 8, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 12, Wis: 19, Cha 10
Channeling has nothing to do with Wisdom and a Oracle will be better at it all day and every day. Forget about unless you're in a Position to use it. Being surrounded or Grappled being key places since it does not provoke AoO when using it. Especially since you're Not going to break a grapple at any time unless you use the Trait Wisdom in the flesh to get escape artist.
Never swing a real weapon. My cleric will take something like an Adamantine Morningstar and a Potion of Magic weapon. I pass it off to open doors and when people forget that Adamantine is amazing against constructs. Silence on it also acts like a silent Master key option. If your wanting to swing a weapon your going to need a 13-16 str depending on how much self buffing you want to do. But most people find in PFS that things die before you can lay down lots of buffs. But at this point you are NOT a caster cleric. If you want to swing a "weapon" use spiritual weapon, summon something, or use divine trident/Gozreh Trident.
I do not recommend Channel feats at all. Channel smite is Blah at best and you're not an Oracle. Channeling is Blah for you unless you go with AoE daze builds and that is a entirely different concept of character than a caster cleric.
I like Improved initiative as it gives you option to buff early or plan out your turn.
When I play a caster cleric I really like the Evangelist Archetype as I love the enchantment based spells they can use. Command is abuse worthy. And suggestion just plain rocks. Can easily prevent damage and give teammates extra attacks...
Appreciate the feedback here. The issue is I don't know what to call my cleric concept. I'm calling it a caster cleric or bad-touch cleric because that's the closest thing it relates to...but it's a tad different even from those... I refrained from saying "bad touch cleric" earlier as it usually draws in childish comments & overused jokes instead of helpful replies.
Issues I have here: I want really high save DC's. Ghoul Touch, Hold Person, and any inflict spell or Slay Living / Harm really sucks if your save DC is low. For those spells you NEED for them to fail their save for the spells to be effective. So I need a high Wisdom to make those spells work WELL.
I don't have the stat points to really make Strength a 14 or better without really screwing up a bunch of other stats. I'm either forced to dump a multiple other stats or really nerf Wisdom which goes back to my "needing high save DC's." So the question is "How do I deal damage when my touch to-hit is low / unreliable?" Guided Hand seems to be the most logical answer, I'm trying to max Wis and compared to a 7str, Guided Hand gives me a +8 to-hit advantage at 6th level. Albeit it's vs AC and not touch though. But it allows me to tack on extra damage (scythe damage & Channel Smite damage) compared to what a Touch attack would deliver.
Channel Smite is a feat tax requirement for Guided Hand so if I take Guided Hand I HAVE to have Channel Smite. Channel Smite is semi useful though as it's free extra damage as a swift action, especially on a coup de grace that's pretty useful.
My plan was / is to paralyze enemies and send them to the afterlife with a single swing. Scythe damage WILL be crap; the REAL damage is the 5d6 (Channel Smite) and 3d8+CL (Slay Living) in addition. Coup de grace of 8d4'ish + 3d8+CL + 5d6 + 9 damage.....they get a save of 10 + damage dealt....they're dead. I don't even know if the spells are multiplied by x2 or x4 when stored on a scythe but even if they aren't multiplied that damage is VERY nice. If the scythe causes spells to crit then that's one more reason to use the scythe over touch attacks 100% of the time.
I have a Fire domain Theologian Cleric that uses Spirital Weapon (Tetsubo) to great effect. I'm not looking to build that, looking to make a cleric that delivers massive damage and shuts down enemies. I also have an Evangelist Cleric geared towards using Sanctuary & an Animal Companion.
NOTE: Also, a Spell-Storing weapon holds a charge indefinitely. Cast Persistent Ghoul Touch into the scythe at the start of the day. You can also cast another touch spell at the start of the day and hold the charge in your hand indefinitely. But, I'd probably not hold a charge in hand as my 1st action in combat would be Divine Favor (+4atk/+4dmg @ 9th level) or a battlefield control spell. Casting a spell would cause you to lose the charge held in hand. So I don't see myself spending a lot of rounds "buffing" as my only real buff spell in combat is Divine Favor.
EDIT: Gozreh's Trident has a deity restriction, so unless you're a Cleric of Gozreh you can't cast it. I'm also playing a Cleric of an Evil deity so even though I'm 1step away, "True Neutral", I can't cast Protection from Evil. I can later on cast Righteous Might though which gives +1 size, +4 str, +4con, -2 dex, DR 5/Good which is much better than DR 5/Evil that positive channelers get. That becomes a pretty good buff in PFS as most enemies aren't geared to overcome DR/Good.
Also, 4th level spell Freedom of Movement = no more worries of being grappled. Thanks for pointing out Wisdom in the Flesh though, I forgot about that trait. Almost tempted to take that for Acrobatics.
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I wouldnt be into so much into ghoul touch unless you're theologian. Domain spells are once per day, so its a 4k gp for a lv 2 pearl of power. Possibly you could go weapon finesse. I never got that much mileage out of ghoul touch as it targets fort, so most monsters can make the save.
Inner sea gods - clerics of Urgathoa can prepare ghoul touch as a 2nd level spell. No need to be Theologian. Persistent metemagic makes you roll 2 and take the lower. At 6th level cleric it'll be at DC 18, higher if I take spell focus necromancy or get higher wisdom. With magical lineage it's a 3rd level spell for persistent ghoul touch.
@Fruian - Wisdom in the Flesh is an Irori only religion trait. Won't work.
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These where just suggestions based on what I take. I tend to play NG and do the worship a Ideal when I play as pleasing a God is just so boring. Plus this line:EDIT: Gozreh's Trident has a deity restriction, so unless you're a Cleric of Gozreh you can't cast it. I'm also playing a Cleric of an Evil deity so even though I'm 1step away, "True Neutral", I can't cast Protection from Evil. I can later on cast Righteous Might though which gives +1 size, +4 str, +4con, -2 dex, DR 5/Good which is much better than DR 5/Evil that positive channelers get. That becomes a pretty good buff in PFS as most enemies aren't geared to overcome DR/Good.
Wisdom in the Flesh is an Irori only religion trait. Won't work.
Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells A cleric can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to her own or her deity's (if she has one).
Deities just seem to slow a Cleric Down.
I'm calling it a caster cleric or bad-touch cleric because that's the closest thing it relates to...but it's a tad different even from those... I refrained from saying "bad touch cleric" earlier as it usually draws in childish comments & overused jokes instead of helpful replies.
I see they are different completely but I can give you some suggestions on Bad touch:
Madness is a Preemo Bad Touch Domain. It does not fall under Urgathoa's domains But You're going to be walking a pretty hard evil Line with Urgathoa and You might be better served worshiping an Ideal and not worrying about pleasing the evil god. Being Neutral, Channeling Negative Energy, and Getting access to that Protection from Evil spell. Not to mention you do not draw as many eyeballs at the table.
Why is madness the premo Bad touch Domain?
This Give you the ability for 3 rounds to boost their skills and Lower both their Attack rolls and Saving throws equal to half your cleric level. After landing one of these you will stick most your spells. If I ever roll with a bad touch I always try and work in Madness and Trickery domains.
The spell list is pretty nice too. Lesser confusion, Touch of Idiocy, Confusion, and Phantasmal Killer are all nice spells that put a real hurt on people.
This Aura is actually pretty good because it targets a will save and Copies the Confusion spell. Having them fight each other while you single out a target to fight is pretty nice Crowd control method.
Now since I know your going bad touch My suggestion for stat allotment would be:
Str: 13, Dex: 12, Con: 13, Int: 12, Wis: 18, Cha: 10
If you decide to stick with Urgathoa you can always take Potion Glutton and Chug Enlarge potions like they are on discount. With the above stat allotment you would do fine with Divine favor or Power and not needing guided hand or Channel smite saving you a feat. Bump Str up to 14 at 4 and you will have plenty of combat viability. That is always an Option.
But the way a Caster cleric and a Bad touch cleric are built are completely different. Remember these are all suggestion that maybe something I mentioned might help to push your character a bit farther.
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These where just suggestions based on what I take. I tend to play NG and do the worship a Ideal when I play as pleasing a God is just so boring. Plus this line:Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells A cleric can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to her own or her deity's (if she has one).Deities just seem to slow a Cleric Down.
PFS requires clerics to worship a deity so the ideals part would be nice but not possible here.
Maybe a Separatist cleric of Urgathoa may be best? Primary domain: Undead & Secondary domain: Madness (effectively level -2 progression). I'd have to spend a feat to get Weapon Proficiency: Scythe but it seems like a decent trade.
Few reasons why I like Urgathoa.
1) Necklace converts inflict spells to healing
2) Ghoul Touch added to Clerics list
3) Scythe is x4 crit
4) Potion Glutton (Move action draw potion, swift action drink, standard action cast a spell. Allows for Enlarge Person + Divine Favor buffs all in 1st round.)
I've thought about going with Fumeiyoshi or Shelyn (especially Shelyn since you can take Exalted prestige class with her. Can't with evil deities because requirements say your alignment must match deity's alignment.) Fumeiyoshi comes with a reach weapon already and Tactics domain. Lose out on Ghoul Touch though, also Inflicts spells and Negative Channels won't heal me which is a negative compared to Urgathoa. Shelyn has Love domain, pretty strong sanctuary effect, and some comes equipped with a reach weapon. Could do Separatist with her but Tactics or Madness domain seems pretty iffy as how someone combines that with Shelyn and her Love domain.
I keep thinking about Magical Lineage: Ghoul Touch & Persistent Spell Ghoul Touch being a 3rd level spell for a save twice or be paralyzed for 3+ rounds. That's 2+ rounds of coup de graces on an enemy. Hold Person is decent but Persistent Spell doesn't work on consecutive saves and allows for a save every round so IMO it's not as good as Ghoul Touch.
This is ultimately my thought process for a bad touch Cleric down to a few selections and they all seem good. I just can't tell which is BEST.
1) Shelyn - Lvl5 Separatist Cleric / Rest Exalted (domains: Love + X)
Deity spells added: Aspect of the Nightingale lvl1, Tap Inner Beauty lvl1, Charm Person lvl1, Charm Animal lvl2, Good Hope lvl4
2) Fumeiyoshi - Full Separatist Cleric (domains: Tactics + X)
3) Urgathoa - Full Separatist Cleric (domains Undead + Madness)
Deity spells added: Ghoul Touch, Ghoul Hunger lvl2, Plague Bearer lvl6
An Evil deity would give DR 5/Good with a 5th lvl Righteous Might spell. Advancing to DR 10/Good at 15th level which I plan to play PFS arcs past 12th level.
Taking Exalted with Shelyn gets Permanent "Protection from" my choice of 1 of the following: evil, chaos, or law. Can summon a lillend azata to aid for 1min per HD. Choice of 2 Calm Emotions or 1 Good Hope SLA a day. 1 domain and all domain spells are 1/day SLA's. At 12th level access to Plumed Blade (add Holy & Shock weapon abilities) for 4 rounds a day. That's a free +3 weapon enchantment for 4 rounds.
It's been difficult for me to weigh in on these as both Urgathoa and Shelyn come out near the top personally. Both have pages of lore to help add extra RP to my character. Fumeiyoshi has a tiny bit of lore but he's got Tactics, Reach, and x4 crit weapon.
I could really use some suggestions and some thoughts on the above. I'm adding 4 levels worth of credit onto my just turning lvl 2 character.
Shelyn + madness = mad with love?
sheyln + tactics = the artistry of a well planned battle?