| Johnny_Devo |
Wherein you make decisions for what class you're taking, applying the BAB, choosing feats and spells, gaining a class feature or two, or whatever.
For example, The feat "extra arcana" has a requirement of having the "magus arcana" class feature. A magus can select this at level 3, right? Does this mean that feats are chosen after class features?
If there is an order of operations, what is the order? Can this potentially limit some choices?
If there is not an order of operations, doesn't this allow some odd things? for example, if I wanted to take the duelist prestige class at level 7, could I use the "dodge" feat gained at level 7 as a prerequisite for taking the level in duelist? I feel like the answer is no, but the answer being no suggests that there is some kind of order of operations. You know, beside the obvious "hit die and BAB is dependant on class" type thing.
kinevon
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When adding new levels of an existing class or adding levels of a new class (see Multiclassing, below), make sure to take the following steps in order. First, select your new class level. You must be able to qualify for this level before any of the following adjustments are made. Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level. Third, integrate all of the level's class abilities and then roll for additional hit points. Finally, add new skills and feats. For more information on when you gain new feats and ability score increases, see Table: Character Advancement and Level-Dependent Bonuses.
Page 30 of the CRB, or at Classes in the Paizo PRD.
1) Select your new class level
2) Apply ability score increase, if applicable
3) Gain or upgrade class abilities
4) Gain additional hit points
5) Gain skill ranks
6) Gain new feats
| Johnny_Devo |
Just in case it's relevant, do spells count as "gain or upgrade class abilities"?
In addition, does this work the same way at first level, except you pick your race first?
For example, this may be relevant in this odd situation. You pick a level 1 human, then apply all the human bonuses. One of those human bonuses is a bonus feat. You pick racial heritage, allowing you to count as an elf. Then you pick your class, magus, and the elven archetype spell dancer. Or are bonus feats gained as part of something else still gained when you would normally gain feats?
kinevon
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I think spells, or at least spells known, spell slots, and free spells gained would all count as class abilities.
For initial character generation, I would refer you to the Getting Started chapter in the CRB, or the equivalent section in the PRD
From the sly rogue to the stalwart paladin, the Pathfinder RPG allows you to make the character you want to play. When generating a character, start with your character's concept. Do you want a character who goes toe-to-toe with terrible monsters, matching sword and shield against claws and fangs? Or do you want a mystical seer who draws his powers from the great beyond to further his own ends? Nearly anything is possible.Once you have a general concept worked out, use the following steps to bring your idea to life, recording the resulting information and statistics on your Pathfinder RPG character sheet, which can be found at the back of this book and photocopied for your convenience.
Step 1—Determine Ability Scores: Start by generating your character's ability scores. These six scores determine your character's most basic attributes and are used to decide a wide variety of details and statistics. Some class selections require you to have better than average scores for some of your abilities.
Step 2—Pick Your Race: Next, pick your character's race, noting any modifiers to your ability scores and any other racial traits (see Races). There are seven basic races to choose from, although your GM might have others to add to the list. Each race lists the languages your character automatically knows, as well as a number of bonus languages. A character knows a number of additional bonus languages equal to his or her Intelligence modifier.
Step 3—Pick Your Class: A character's class represents a profession, such as fighter or wizard. If this is a new character, he starts at 1st level in his chosen class. As he gains experience points (XP) for defeating monsters, he goes up in level, granting him new powers and abilities.
Step 4—Pick Skills and Select Feats: Determine the number of skill ranks possessed by your character, based on his class and Intelligence modifier (and any other bonuses, such as the bonus received by humans). Then spend these ranks on skills, but remember that you cannot have more ranks than your level in any one skill (for a starting character, this is usually one). After skills, determine how many feats your character receives, based on his class and level, and select them from those presented in Feats.
Step 5—Buy Equipment: Each new character begins the game with an amount of gold, based on his class, that can be spent on a wide range of equipment and gear, from chainmail armor to leather backpacks. This gear helps your character survive while adventuring. Generally speaking, you cannot use this starting money to buy magic items without the consent of your GM.
Step 6—Finishing Details: Finally, you need to determine all of a character's details, including his starting hit points (hp), Armor Class (AC), saving throws, initiative modifier, and attack values. All of these numbers are determined by the decisions made in previous steps. Aside from these, you need to decide on your character's name, alignment, and physical appearance. It is best to jot down a few personality traits as well, to help you play the character during the game. Additional rules (like age and alignment) are described in Additional Rules.
| Rub-Eta |
There is no specific order you level up in, you just gain everything at the same time. However, as indicated by many FAQ's, you qualify for feats the same level as you fullfill the prerequisits.
Ex:
Example: If you have a fighter archetype that replaces weapon training 1 (but not weapon training 2, 3, and 4), you don't gain the weapon training 2 ability until fighter level 9, which means you don't have the weapon training class ability at all until you reach fighter level 9. Anything with "weapon training" or "weapon training class feature" as a prerequisite is unavailable to you until level 9.
| RDM42 |
Wherein you make decisions for what class you're taking, applying the BAB, choosing feats and spells, gaining a class feature or two, or whatever.
For example, The feat "extra arcana" has a requirement of having the "magus arcana" class feature. A magus can select this at level 3, right? Does this mean that feats are chosen after class features?
If there is an order of operations, what is the order? Can this potentially limit some choices?
If there is not an order of operations, doesn't this allow some odd things? for example, if I wanted to take the duelist prestige class at level 7, could I use the "dodge" feat gained at level 7 as a prerequisite for taking the level in duelist? I feel like the answer is no, but the answer being no suggests that there is some kind of order of operations. You know, beside the obvious "hit die and BAB is dependant on class" type thing.
No, you couldn't use a feat from a level of a class to qualify for a class, because you couldn't have it until you took the level of that class, and you couldn't take a level in that class until you had it.
Class prerequisite class(pre=before, as in it is required before) check; no, I don't have the feat. Therefore you couldn't take that class to get that feat so you could take the class to get the feat. If it was just a "requisite" feat, that would be one thing, but it's a PRE requisite.
Diego Rossi
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Kinevon pointed our the correct order of operations when gaining a level and when creating a character.
There are a few quirks:
- the human bonus feat is a racial bonus and you get in step 2 when creating a character, before selecting your class.
- the new spells you automatically gain when increasing your level are part of the class features, so they are selected before the feats you get at the odd levels.
claudekennilol
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Kinevon pointed our the correct order of operations when gaining a level and when creating a character.
There are a few quirks:
- the human bonus feat is a racial bonus and you get in step 2 when creating a character, before selecting your class.
- the new spells you automatically gain when increasing your level are part of the class features, so they are selected before the feats you get at the odd levels.
So you're saying that I couldn't pick something like Weapon Focus as my human bonus feat? (both no BAB without a class level and humans have no weapon proficiencies)