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Make it a Feat bonus, no? Aren't there such things?
Other than that, not bad, I don't think it's too strong or anything.
I am not sure if a "feat bonus" exists, I know about "trait bonus's" but other than that /shrug.
I was thinking of using this as a one time, bump to give feat heavy classes something DECENT to take instead of halfbaked feat that they will get minimal benefit from. It also could help ease the gap to get to a few PrC's.
I think it needs some kind of prereq tho, and I'm drawing a blank on something appropriate.
heh when i see feats like this I know the person posting them has something particular in mind.
so
on the surface looks fine
but
what potentially broketastic combo do you have in mind for it ;) tell us that and we'll tell you if its broken or not.
First thing that came to my mind was being able to quailfy earlier for feats/ PrC's with 1/2 or 3/4 BAB classes
this feat would also allow any full BAB class a 5th attack at 20th level
21/16/11/6/1
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heh when i see feats like this I know the person posting them has something particular in mind.
so
on the surface looks fine
butwhat potentially broketastic combo do you have in mind for it ;) tell us that and we'll tell you if its broken or not.
First thing that came to my mind was being able to quailfy earlier for feats/ PrC's with 1/2 or 3/4 BAB classes
this feat would also allow any full BAB class a 5th attack at 20th level
21/16/11/6/1
Specifically I have a player frustrated at the entry requirements for arcane archer in that you have to reach level 8 before you can even gain entry to the class with only a 1 level dip into sorcerer/wizard.
And an additional attack at level 20 doesn't seem overpowered to me, esp since you would need to have all your levels in said full BAB classes.
Blow some holes in this thing for me if you would, I am having a hard time seeing a real issue with it.
BAB is tied to the class level, just like base saves are. It would be better to say his class level counts as his BAB for the purpose of entering a prestige class. I would even allow him to ignore the prereq before I gave him actual BAB. This came up a while ago. If I can find the thread I will post the link here.
BAB is tied to the class level, just like base saves are. It would be better to say his class level counts as his BAB for the purpose of entering a prestige class. I would even allow him to ignore the prereq before I gave him actual BAB. This came up a while ago. If I can find the thread I will post the link here.
I'd agree with this weaker prereqs are a safer way since if he take's for e.g. sorc 6 he's at +4 BAB as a sorc6/AA 1 , which means he still only has 1 attack as he enters the class and is at -3 BAB ongoing.
he'll also have less HP etc
There's a reason prestige classes are only 10 levels. What would you do for someone that wanted to be a dragon disciple who doesn't want to wait until level 6, someone wanting to be a mystic theurge who doesn't want to wait until level 7, or someone wanting to be a loremaster who doesn't want to wait until level 8? If you're ok with them taking the PrC early then just handwave the BAB requirement, I don't think you need a new feat.
There's a reason prestige classes are only 10 levels. What would you do for someone that wanted to be a dragon disciple who doesn't want to wait until level 6, someone wanting to be a mystic theurge who doesn't want to wait until level 7, or someone wanting to be a loremaster who doesn't want to wait until level 8? If you're ok with them taking the PrC early then just handwave the BAB requirement, I don't think you need a new feat.
I guess you could even argue that as long as your ran the math (and curb any early brokeness) you could remove all prereqs and let somone enter a Prestige Class at Level 2, on the provision that once they reach level 10 in the PrC they need to backpay the prereqs by taking the levels they would have had to take at the start to gain entry into the class
Ok, so one level of sorceror, I can then slide right into Eldritch Knight, and 'back-pay' the pre-reqs? This is madness.
Besides, you've just been handed a story hook. USE IT! The arcane archers would normally NEVER allow anyone in. But, if you're willing to enter the trail of fire, cave of fear, tomb of doom, etc., you can earn their trust.
Build it so that a person with the normal requirements for AA would find it challenging, and then let it rip.
Creative Director
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A feat that grants a blanket BAB bonus, even if it's only +1, and even if only once during a character's career, is unfortunately way overpowered. Not because it just gives you a +1 on attack rolls (and thus to CMB and CMD), but because the rate at which a BAB progresses is linked to a lot of stuff. Not only would this allow you to access prestige classes and other feats a level before they were designed to be available, but it would grant you your additional attacks for high BAB a level early. This more or less is the same as granting a wizard the ability to cast fireball at 4th level, or a rogue 3d6 sneak attack at 4th level. It's unnecessary power creep, really.
It's also much better than Weapon Focus, which also grants a +1 bonus on attack rolls but only with a single weapon.
A bonus to BAB feat is a slippery and dangerous slope to tread.
Ok, so one level of sorceror, I can then slide right into Eldritch Knight, and 'back-pay' the pre-reqs? This is madness.
Besides, you've just been handed a story hook. USE IT! The arcane archers would normally NEVER allow anyone in. But, if you're willing to enter the trail of fire, cave of fear, tomb of doom, etc., you can earn their trust.
Build it so that a person with the normal requirements for AA would find it challenging, and then let it rip.
It sounds like the GM is trying to accommodate a player who wants access to the AA abilities and flavor much earlier.
this is just one possible way, it will require houseruling at several stages but it is possible and it would give said player what he wants without breaking the game.
Put it this way the fun police are not going to storm your gaming table if you allowed this ;)
if you want to slap a price on it, maybe maybe him pay with some points out of his point buy for stats, and only give them back once he's paid for the PrC.
For arguments sake lets say he's taken Arcane archer at Level 2
by this time most character have got thier hands on a +1 weapon so firstly the Enhance Arrows ability at 1st level is fine at +1
At 4th level he gains flaming, frost, or shock.
now this is an extra 1d6 damage which itself is normally +1 on a magic weapon so again overall only +2.
Just be aware of stacking and make it clear that if he tries to stack these abilities with magic items your not going to allow it as you want to keep par with others in the group. even more easily you can simply deny him magic bows in the loot for example.
again the 5th 7th and 9th level enhance abilites are nothing too crazy that other player in the group can't match with magic items, if you want to prevent him spending his extra cash on other magic items just find a nice RP sink for his individual money another condition of allowing the AA early
Imbue arrow
a bit trickier but far from difficult to balance simplest way I can think of your CL is consider 1/2 its actual value for the purposes of what spell you can imbue the arrows with
so at 11th level as an an effect sorc of caster level 9th he can only add spells as a sorc level 4 which would be 2nd level spells. he can still cast 3rd level spells but he can't put them on his arrows yet.
You can lift this restriction when you feel its warranted
Seeker Arrow
useful although not really a huge problem
Phase Arrow
gained at 7th level quite a good ability, in short he dosent get the extra uses at higher levels until he's started paying off the reqs, as a one off its nice to have but far from overpowering, but he'll be happy he can still use it once per day
Hail of Arrows and Death arrow are defintly starting to get on the pwoerful side
an easy option is to let him get to Sorc1/Arcane archer 7 and then make him start paying off the prerequites so that he can only get the hail of arrows and death arrow at the appropriate levels. during this payback time you can start to loosen the imbue arrow restrictions.
A always a well thought out compromise will keep your player happy and the balance stable at your table. Just make it crystal clear to him that if anything you've house ruled turns out to be alot more powerful than expected then it'll be nerfed on the fly. but once your into the mid levels I seriously doubt you'll have any issues especially during the payback stage any minor imbalances will quickly sort themselves out.
On a different note, I am ok with the feat as long as it doesn't let a person qualify for a Prc early and doesn't raise there BAB higher than their hit die. I think it would be a great rogue/inquisitor/monk feat.
I wouldnt touch this feat with a 10 ft pole, if you want the player to take arcane archer early just houserule that instead of creating strange feats with unintended side effects.
On a different note, I am ok with the feat as long as it doesn't let a person qualify for a Prc early and doesn't raise there BAB higher than their hit die. I think it would be a great rogue/inquisitor/monk feat.
my only other minor concern on a general note is that who wouldn't take this feat ?
I mean seriously what 3/4BAB character wouldn't want +1 BAB especially at first level? and if you find it hard to find a reason not to take a feat its a sign the feat might be a little too good in comparison to others.
For example instead of -2/-2 monk kicks off at -1/-1
any 3/4 BAB class will get a 2nd attack 1 level earlier at 6th instead of 7th.
also consider the fact there are no other ways to get +1 to your attack through feats or magic items , which is maybe somthign the devs orignally found out.
consider why there's isn't a Sword +1 attack , that only increases your to hit and not your damage.
Ther are plenty of magic abilites you can add to weapons to get more damage but not one single magic addition you can put on to increase your attack and only your attack role
A feat that grants a blanket BAB bonus, even if it's only +1, and even if only once during a character's career, is unfortunately way overpowered. Not because it just gives you a +1 on attack rolls (and thus to CMB and CMD), but because the rate at which a BAB progresses is linked to a lot of stuff. Not only would this allow you to access prestige classes and other feats a level before they were designed to be available, but it would grant you your additional attacks for high BAB a level early. This more or less is the same as granting a wizard the ability to cast fireball at 4th level, or a rogue 3d6 sneak attack at 4th level. It's unnecessary power creep, really.
It's also much better than Weapon Focus, which also grants a +1 bonus on attack rolls but only with a single weapon.
A bonus to BAB feat is a slippery and dangerous slope to tread.
Exactly. Saved me a lot of typing. Thank you :)
You could do as I do: abolish all non-roleplaying pre-requisites for prestige classes.
In my game, the only way they can achieve PrCs is through roleplay and my say-so.
This is actually a great way to do it, since it absolves players of the stress of picking feats they don't want in order to get the class they do want — but it isn't overpowered because I'm there to say "Maybe you don't need Spell Focus (Abjuration), I think you should get Improved Counterspell instead... or rather, my version of it."
In short, balance the PrCs as a GM, and kick pre-requisites to the curb.
I've got a feat that does something like this.
Practiced Offense
Requirements: Base Attack +1, Proficiency with all martial weapons.
Benefit: Your base attack bonus increases by 2. This cannot increase your base attack bonus above your character level.
A feat that grants a blanket BAB bonus, even if it's only +1, and even if only once during a character's career, is unfortunately way overpowered. Not because it just gives you a +1 on attack rolls (and thus to CMB and CMD), but because the rate at which a BAB progresses is linked to a lot of stuff. Not only would this allow you to access prestige classes and other feats a level before they were designed to be available, but it would grant you your additional attacks for high BAB a level early. This more or less is the same as granting a wizard the ability to cast fireball at 4th level, or a rogue 3d6 sneak attack at 4th level. It's unnecessary power creep, really.
It's also much better than Weapon Focus, which also grants a +1 bonus on attack rolls but only with a single weapon.
A bonus to BAB feat is a slippery and dangerous slope to tread.
Yep, sounds about right.
However, I might allow a "practiced spellcaster" version of BAB increase, where to qualify you must have levels in a non-full BAB class to gain a +1 BAB (ie, you won't get higher than BAB +20 regardless, nor higher than your own HD or class level, so you aren't jumping the gun on anything).
Edit: Ninja'd! Sort of.
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A feat that grants a blanket BAB bonus, even if it's only +1, and even if only once during a character's career, is unfortunately way overpowered. Not because it just gives you a +1 on attack rolls (and thus to CMB and CMD), but because the rate at which a BAB progresses is linked to a lot of stuff. Not only would this allow you to access prestige classes and other feats a level before they were designed to be available, but it would grant you your additional attacks for high BAB a level early. This more or less is the same as granting a wizard the ability to cast fireball at 4th level, or a rogue 3d6 sneak attack at 4th level. It's unnecessary power creep, really.
It's also much better than Weapon Focus, which also grants a +1 bonus on attack rolls but only with a single weapon.
A bonus to BAB feat is a slippery and dangerous slope to tread.
Yep, sounds about right.
However, I might allow a "practiced spellcaster" version of BAB increase, where to qualify you must have levels in a non-full BAB class to gain a +1 BAB (ie, you won't get higher than BAB +20 regardless, nor higher than your own HD or class level, so you aren't jumping the gun on anything).
Edit: Ninja'd! Sort of.
- Adding BAB with feats is just a bad idea, the combat potential of the various classes is pretty much hard-wired in the system, regardless of what class you take it grows with it.
- Practised spellcaster is a powerful feat, but it is a "fix multi-class spellcaster feat" more than anything else, personally I think the magic rating system works better to make it more like BAB.
- You might consider adding fractions of BAB from classes though :
good BAB = +1 per level
average BAB = +3/4 per level
poor BAB = +1/2 per level
This might fix some awkward multi-class BAB loss. Otherwise the BAB system works like it should.
One point of BAB is worth more than one feat. I would say it is worth 1.5 to 2 feats. I have seen systems based on 3.0 that uses a point based system. A feat cost 2 points and one point of BAB cost 3 points.